Don’t worry about it, too much. You don’t get much extra damage at all from sjc into ultra. All you really get is a hit confirm from a move that’s difficult to land in the first place (TC4). Ultra II is fast enough to punish big whiffs and a lot of laggy moves and does great damage by itself.
I mean u can land SJC ultra off of s.MK which is easy to combo off her jabs but the damage reduction is just insane. Not worth it unless it will win the round.
Also regarding comboing into U2, don’t bother comboing into it off of a focus crumple, scaling rapes your damage and IIRC, it’s actually less damage in total than if you just crumple > U2. Just throwing this out because I’ve seen some Ibuki’s do this.
It’s not entirely useless. Sacrificing a couple points of damage for big gains in meter gain and stun is good if you can pull it off.
If you wanna gain stun you’re better off comboing into neck break or tsumuji with the sweep ender and then building more stun. Ultras don’t build any stun and the stun build by doing any of her target combos or jab links into Ultra just don’t build enough stun to warrant doing. Especially when ultra 2 throws u to the full other end of the screen after it hits.
yeah… her u2 would be alot better if she were closer on hit. the fact that it corners people is good… but shes way too far too really get any kind of consistent pressure after it hits… which is a shame… ibuki is a momentum based character and landing hits is what she does, so having such a big momentum break in her offense, from her hitting ultra, isnt good imho.
still though, its cornering benefits are something to think about.
-dime
Where did I say the ultra builds stun?
FA3 , U2 = 478dmg, 200 stun, 60 meter gain
FA3 , s.LP xx s.MP xx s.HP xx SJC U2 = 475dmg, 346 stun, 180 meter gain
(for comparison):
FA3 , s.LP xx s.MP xx s.HP xx hp.neckbreaker = 357dmg, 471 stun, 240 meter gain
My point was that if you’re consistent with SJC U2, adding a target combo before it gives you some free stuff. You may have a point with the pushback though, ending Ibuki’s momentum.
You didn’t say the ultra builds stun but that’s the point I’m trying to make. You lose all of your momentum to build the opponent’s stun when u put them through a 15 second cut scene and then throw them back to the far end of the screen. Comboing into her ultra 2 unless u do it off of a one hit normal just scales too hard, u lose your momentum to stun them and by the time u get back up to the opponent after you hit them they’ve probably nearly had their stun reset to zero again. You just can’t argue the downgrades to comboing into ultra 2 outside of if it is going to win you the round. If you’re just using it to combo off in the middle of battle you are basically limiting your own offense. Better off just saving the ultra to punish something on block or go through a fireball where it has much stronger applications.
Those combos u list all force you to land FA3 so the ultra doesn’t scale. If you regularly land Ibuki’s level 3 focus then hey more power to you but against competent people that’s going to be hard to do. Especially with all of the new focus break characters they put in the game.
My whole point is that the best aspects of ultra 2 are just storing it to punish things. It moves her half way across the screen when she does it which just storing the ultra allows you to shut down a good bit of the options the opponent can utilize which then u can just use your huge stun building BnB’s to build the opponent up to stun status.
^ I agree totally with the above.
Getting counter poke cr. mp into buffered sjc ultra II would be a useful thing to learn. I think that’s also relatively easy to do on pad.
Otherwise, I think that as the metagame evolves, Ibuki’s ultra II is going to be a big deterrent like Abel and Chun’s ultra I. It’ll definitely become more worth it to save her ultra II as a threat vs fireball characters and for honda’s headbutts except ex.
Not exactly. You still recover faster than your opponent and then you can HK command dash and be within far LP range on their wakeup.
Stun doesn’t reset during the ultra animation… if you want to continue pressuring, you can. You just can’t vortex.
Um, the ultra does scale, no matter what level FA it is… if you want lvl 1 or lvl 2 data, then just subtract the respective differences in dmg/stun/meter gain. It’s the first hit, so it’s 100%, so the math should be easy. I was just using the worse case scenario (lvl 3) as a basis. Kind of annoying how you just instantly assume I meant Ibuki is going to get lvl 3 FA’s all day.
What can U2 punish that EX neckbreaker can’t?
True but I’d rather be within LP kunai vortex and j.LK cross up range .
Well as long as the stun doesn’t go down during the ultra that’s decent but either way I don’t like not being in vortex range after especially if I was trying to stun them to begin with.
The point I was trying to make is that unless u connect level 3 forcus the damage u get after target into ultra just isn’t worth it. Might as well just do the ultra raw or just build stun.
A lot of stuff. All non EX Honda headbutts,Seth’s ultra 1 on block from a little inside 3/4’s screen,Zangief back dashing or forward dashing after FADCing a green hand, any blocked headbutt from Balrog, HP or EX criminal upper from Cody, blocked splashes or run slides from Fuerte and the list could go on. Just holding onto ultra 2 allows u to big damage punish a lot of things people love to hit you with or force u to block.
Plus although u can punish these with EX neck break any Blanka EX up ball on block or hit any blocked cannon spike from Cammy that isn’t FADC’d T.Hawk’s condor dive will also get touched by Ibuki’s ultra 2. That’s 400+ damage as opposed to 160 damage. The ability to stop people from doing things they normally use for pressure or to get you away from them can be their doom. That’s really good to have.
Besides you’re comparing the punish ability of a move that takes 15 frames to start up, does 160 damage and throws u back to the full other end of the screen. The only real redeeming factor for punishment is that it does 300 stun. Though you’re at the full other end of the screen. While ultra 2 starts up in 9 frames (the frames alone allow it to punish way more on block), covers a huge amount of distance across the screen for an ultra and can do up to 470+damage. I like being able to stop Zangief from FADCing after green hands or stopping Fuerte players from running tostada presses and run slides all day over trying to get close enough to them to hit them with a target combo or a focus attack (not gonna happen much vs. either character). Oh and not to mention Ultra 2 also is completely projectile invincible and travels near half the screen length in like 9 frames. Characters like Ryu, Gouken and Dee Jay can’t throw projectiles reliably against Ibuki with this ultra stocked without worrying about taking big damage.
I’m not trying to totally deny the power of being able to combo into ultra 2 but honestly if you are going to do it u might as well just land a focus attack or do it off of a c.HP to maximize damage. I like comboing into ultra 2 to end a round but there’s just too many things Ultra 2 can punish and stop people from doing just by holding on it.
Ok how about this Focus Crumple crHPxxU2 does max damage
U2 has half the startup as neckbreaker… When I was testing backdash kill OS I tried using Neckbreaker instead of U2 and timing that on chun is stupid hard
Yeah I definitely prefer just using c.HP after a focus if you want to maximize your damage. Though that’s considering you must land a focus attack first. Ibuki’s focus attack is average at best. Definitely not going to be landing that all over the place against Rog or Dictator.
And the point I was trying to make was that if you were going to U2 after a crumple, you’d might as well add in a target combo and then SJC U2 for extra meter and stun. Although I still disagree with alot of this other random stuff you said.
You should double check your list since a lot of things in there are definitely punishable with EX neckbreaker, or even some regular neckbreakers…
For the gief one, if gief wants to hand xx fadc , dash in, you could just punish with a throw/raida… if he wants to back dash after, well that was a waste of 2 bars. Good luck continuing to pressure and throw Ibuki from that far.
That’s fine. I’m just saying raw ultra 2 would still do good damage even if your execution wasn’t on par to do target combo into ultra. That’s really all I was trying to bring up. The fact that not being able to SJC into ultra 2 doesn’t mean u should drop Ibuki. Far from it.
Well I already corrected the list by mentioning the things that can be punished by EX neck breaker. I also mentioned why EX neck breaker being able to punish those things is hilariously useless compared to how u can also punish those things with ultra 2 for way more damage. I like being able to stop people from doing things because they risk losing 400 damage if they use them. Which for a tournament match especially is huge giving you more breathing room to move in and less things to worry about from the opponent. You can’t deny that.
The strongest uses of Ultra 2 are definitely the ability to punish things on block and go through fireballs. SJCing into ultra is the 3rd place trick that’s useful in some situations or if you need to end the round but I would never throw away ultra 2 by just SJC comboing into it in the middle of the round against a T.Hawk or Honda player.
**Outside of that topic I have also done a beta of my BnB reliability list. ** Like I mentioned earlier a lot of Ibuki’s crouch based combos work differently or have more/less reliability on different characters. I wanted to make a list of what I’ve found to make it easier for people to do the correct BnB’s depending on if the opponent is crouching or standing and the range they are at.
**Now the first thing to note is that if you want a combo that works ALL THE TIME whether your opponent is crouching or standing your best bet is c.LPx2 to s.MK. ** That’s the same combo that I believe Dashio and some others have been doing. Now of course the thing about that combo is that it’s a 1 frame link requiring you to plink it by pianoing your fingers from s.MK to s.LK quickly. Which even with that method or reliability for that combo will vary if you are playing online where there’s an average of 3 frames of delay per game. Though myself I really hate doing 1 frame links in general so here’s a list of things you can do if u don’t like one frame links.
**As a disclaimer there are some combos that can only work at the absolute max range with a 1 frame link. So if you are absolute max distance against a lot of characters your only hope is to use the 1 framer.
**
I split up the list for each character as to combos to use on them when they are crouching and then combos to use on them if they are standing. ** For all of these combos obviously you are going to end them with either HP neck breaker or MK/EX tsumuji with the low spin kick finish to create untech knockdown.**
Ryu: Crouching: Point blank to farther range, c.LPx2, LK, MK chain. Max range c.LPx2, s.MK.
c.LP, far s.LP, s.MK (unreliable). c.LK, far s.LP, s.MK (not reliable when near max range). At max range c.LK, c.LP, s.MK.
As a note for that last c.LK combo both c.LK to c.LP and c.LP to s.MK are one frame links. Essentially meaning at max range u have to do 2 1 frame links in order to combo into tsumuji or HP neck break after the s.MK. Definitely going to have build up your execution to do that reliably. You can plink the s.MK after the c.LP but u can’t plink c.LP so u must raw 1 frame the c.LK to c.LP. Luckily this is only required for max range.
Standing: c.LP, s.LP when near or at max range for far LP.
Ken: Same as Ryu.
Akuma: Crouching: same as Ryu except c.LK, far s.LP is a bit more reliable at a range.
Standing: c.LPx2, s.LP is more reliably on Akuma when standing. Absolute max range still do c.LP, s.LP.
Honda: Crouching: c.LP, far s.LP a bit more reliable on crouch (a bit). c.LK, far s.LP more reliable when crouching. Can substitute c.LP after c.LK when max range.
Standing: Nearly the same hit box as Ryu when standing.
Rose: About the same as Ryu except when crouching c.LP to far s.LP is pretty much useless. There’s like one specific pixel position where it works and otherwise it doesn’t work.
Sakura: Crouching: Similar to Ryu in some things except when doing c.LP to s.LP you will get close s.LP when it doesn’t look like you will because Sakura’s hit box is much larger than her visual appearance on the screen. She looks small but her hit box is actually rather large. c.LP, far s.LP will on her from like all but absolute max range. Her crouching box is almost as large as Ryu standing. Which means BnB’s like c.LPx2 to s.LP are pretty much go to when she is crouching as long as you’re not max range which is great cuz that’s also go to if she is standing.
Standing: Strangely c.LPx2 to far s.LP will whiff on Sakura when she is crouching. Best thing to do is just space yourself so that you can do c.LP, far s.LP to whatever. If you’re at close range your best bet is to do c.LP, LK MK chain.
**
Makoto**: Crouching: at close range c.LP x2, s.LP works great. c.LP, far s.LP, s.MK works well. Max range use 1 framer. c.LK, s.LP great until max range. Nice big crouch box.
Standing: same as Ryu.
Dudley: crouching he’s pretty big. You can do the same combos you would do if Ryu was standing.
Standing: same big do whatever
Seth: crouching: strange hit box. Almost as if it shifts randomly as you are hitting him. Best off just doing c.LPx2, LK MK chain and if u need to be sure do the 1 framer. He might be a character where learning the 1 framer is necessary just because of his shifting hit box. c.LK, far s.LP seems to be reliable on him at least. Don’t need 1 framer after c.LK except absolute max range.
Standing: he’s big when standing at least. Do whatever.
Gouken: Crouching: do much anything. c.LK, far s.LP x 2 even works.
Standing: whatever u want
Gen: Mostly like Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP is more reliable.
Standing: same as Ryu
Dan: crouching or standing basically the same as Ryu.
Juri: crouching: c.LPx2, LK, MK chain can work but whiffs a bit before max range. Better off doing one c.LP then target chain. c.LK, far s.LP is unreliable. Better off using 1 framer off c.LK.
Standing: same as Ryu.
Chun Li: crouching: like Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP more reliable.
Standing: pretty big hit box standing
Dhalsim: crouching: same as Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP more reliable.
Standing: big can do whatever.
Abel: as big as Dudley both crouching and standing.
**
Viper**: crouching: c.LPx2, LK, MK chain only works close range. One c.LP, to target chain is better. c.LP, far s.LP unreliable.
Standing: like Ryu.
**
Bison/Dictator**: crouching: same as Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP doesn’t work at all. Just stick to c.LP’s to target chain or do 1 framer.
Standing: like Ryu
Sagat: crouching: He’s strange. He looks big but his box is small. c.LP, far s.LP is reliable but u can’t throw in 3 jabs like against the big guys. Even that will whiff once u get near max range. One c.LP into target chain is reliable. c.LK, far s.LP is good.
Standing: big when standing
Cammy: crouching: Looks small but actually big. Can do c.LPx2, s.LP at close range.
Standing: Pretty big do whatever.
Dee Jay: crouching and standing pretty much like Ryu
Cody: like Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP more reliable.
Standing: big do whatever
Guy: same deal as Cody.
Hakan: crouching: strange hit box. Looks big but his hit box is smaller than he looks. c.LPx2, s.LP whiffs. Just do one c.LP, far s.LP. Works everytime. c.LK, far s.LP x 2 works though. Don’t need 1 framer against him really unless it’s absolute max range.
Standing: he’s big
Guile: c.LP far s.LP reliable on him. c.LPx2, LK MK chain whiffs. Just stick to one c.LP for target chain. c.LK, far s.LP x 2 can work but not reliable. Just use one far LP.
Standing: big enough
Blanka: crouching: c.LPx2, LK, MK whiffs. One c.LP for target chain. c.LP, far s.LP does not work at all. If u hit him with c.LK u must do 1 framer.
Standing: big do whatever
Zangief: he’s huge crouching and standing
Rufus: his hit box kinda shifts too. c.LP, far s.LP is pretty reliable on him. c.LPx2, LK MK chain reliable. Can do c.LK, far s.LP x 2 but unreliable. Stick to one far LP.
Standing: big.
Fuerte: crouching: like Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP is reliable.
Standing: big do whatever
Ibuki: crouching: c.LP, far s.LP reliable on her. c.LPx2, LK, MK chain whiffs. Better off with one c.LP for chain.
Standing: like Ryu
Vega/Claw: crouching: really annoying. Worse than Blanka. c.LP, LK, MK chain only works close range. Must use one framer outside of close range after c.LP. Luckily c.LK, far s.LP is more reliable on him.
Standing: big whatever
Balrog/Boxer: crouching like Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP is reliable.
Standing: big do whatever.
Fei Long: crouching: pretty big like a slightly smaller version of Makoto.
Standing: big do whatever
T.Hawk: crouching and standing he’s just huge
Adon: standing like Ryu. When crouching he’s like Ryu except c.LP, far s.LP is more reliable.
What’s the general opinion of cr. lp , cr. lp , cr. lk xx ex tsumuji? it’s a 3 frame link and it seems to be very consistent. i tend to use this lately when i am being pressured or am applying a lot of pressure (which in turn puts pressure on my execution) since it is very hard to fuck it up.
@DJ
Why do you prefer Cr.LPx2, LK, MK chain? Wouldn’t having a target combo within a combo down the damage output big time? The range on LK isn’t that good too, Cr.LP at that range is much more reliable. Also: Cr.LPx2, S.LP, S.MK xx SP, if you know the standing LP whiffs, why not just do Cr.LPx3, S.MK xx SP? No flaming intended here, just trying to improve my game here. xP
@walnut
Definitely a reliable combo you have there. Isn’t it also possible to replace EX tsumuji with LK tsumuji? Then follow up with S.LP, S.MK link xx SP on applicable characs. o_o
Funny enough it was Flash Metroid who told me about the c.lpx2 lk mk chain a while back. Basically I like it because it builds good stun and doesn’t require a one frame link. My combos usually gear towards maximizing stun potentialand minimizing reliability on one framers. Sure c.lpx3 s.mk is a good universal link but its a one framer so even with plinking its reliability offline is kinda hit or miss. I already added at the top of the combo list that c.lpx2 s.mk is the most reliable combo if u just have no idea what to do. Though I list options also that don’t reauire one frame links and maximize your ability to combo into hp neckbreak for ideal vortex setups. With ibuki I’m worried about building stun not damage.
Use cr lp cr lp cr lk hk kazegari,no meter lost and more damage.
+no change of whiffing on strange hitboxes.
Ok the combo list on the first page is almost unreadable, please don’t use move names for dam command normals, just list the command normals… honestly dont wanna have to go to the top to see the key to understand every dam combo.