if your goal is to win consistently in competition then top tiers are generally the only way to do that. the reason a character is top tier is because they have the most options and the most good match ups. no amount of time or practice is going to make a bad match up good. you can become better at it but yun will always stomp the shit out of sim, especially in competition when people are playing at their highest level.
if you only go to a couple majors a year and mainly just play for fun then i wouldnt worry about the tier and just pick whoever.
it’s very common for newer players to not want to pick top tiers because they see them as some sort of club of sellouts with overused characters but, in reality the metagame boils down to the characters that are the best because they make the lower tiers unplayable in a competitive sense(either due to top tiers options or low tier lack of options)
marvel 2 magneto is a really good example. he’s going to stomp your shit if you play a low tier team, they’re just not viable against the top tiers.
according to this kuroda has only won 2 SBOs and he wasnt using Q
You have a Phoenix Wright avatar. I understand you like him, but that won’t teach you the basics. It’s a very impractical style of play IMO and won’t get you very far at all. But if that’s what you enjoy, go have fun. As for the two teams you listed, I am having a hard time interpreting what you typed.
Kuroda never won an SBO with Q, but he got damn close, which is pretty impressive for being a low-tiered character.
While Kuroda is an excellent example that player skill > character selection, he’s a rare exception of being able to do this. The vast majority of people won’t accomplish what he has in 3s, but he’s an admirable standard.
just pick who you like/ fits your style. you’re more likely to do better if you play someone you enjoy. However if you are considering it you might as well try out the other characters you don’t play and find one that’s better and you find interesting.
If you have the execution then you need to play against highly adaptable skilled players. If you spar against them they will force you to adapt to mixup (to defend yourself) and force you to become unpredictable and enforce your nerves (opening your opponent and not becoming predictable when under pressure.)
Low tiers help you mixup an uninformed opponent, but learning and understanding the character is a lot more work. It is worth it though.
Play online ranked and use creative offenses that look wierd but are theoretically difficult to block or punish.
Here’s a sexy formula, pick one or two low tiers, but make sure they benefit your one high tier. Without at least one high
tier character with enough bullshit to make the other player second guess himself you are in for a world of hurt!
No, it’s a terrible example because we’re not in the Mahvel-days anymore. Todays games have a way better take at balance.
THawk is widely regarded as the worst SF4 char, yet KojiKOG does extremely well with him. At the strongest AE tourney this year (SS),
the Top8 got a Gen, an EvilRyu and a Dictator. JWong, Ricky and Dieminion frequently do extremely well with Rufus and Guile.
How many “Top Tier”-picking SF4 players are there in the US at all? Krone, Latif because Viper happens to be top.
There’s one Seth, and I don’t even know any Gouki/Adon/Cammy/… ? Limiting yourself to one of the Top5 or even Top10 chars isn’t necessary anymore.
The thread title was a question if he is screwed for picking lower tier and not high tier. I’m just providing evidence that’s not necessarily the case.
Edit: Arachnofiend, can’t remember the enemy but Wong actually had Fist on point.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and information. I really will take a lot of it to heart in training to get better.
This is what tends to make me feel tier skewed though. I’ll hop online or play some people live using characters I have minimal experience with but I do better with those than I do my mains. Basically proving to myself that the low tiers cant win even though it isnt true. Example, I’d play Hakan and get stomped on. I pick Ryu and do basic stuff and win against that same opponent. Its almost like the character choice is what determines the win for me. I just need to focus on practicing with my favorite characters no matter how low they may be.
And to that one guy who said Hakan wasn’t viable, I can understand that in a sense. He is 100% a gimmick character, but his gimmicks are still very untapped. I hope myself or someone can discover some good tech so I can maybe start winning with him
It may feel like you win more with Ryu, but that’s more likely due to the fact that your Ryu play and match-up knowledge with him is stronger than with your Hakan. Hakan requires near perfect execution and a safe and solid strategy to win his matches, along with solid reads on your mix-up game, whereas Ryu can win with pure fundamentals and zoning options.
Hakan’s viability has more to do with his limited options to close the distance on certain opponents, and against superior characters with better close-range game, he can have a difficult time. He’s best played with a strong knowledge of how to utilize his normals, and knowing when and where to use his tricky special moves to land damage, and create mix-ups situations where your opponent is forced to guess. The biggest issue for Hakan, is that in order to become a serious threat, you need to stay oiled up, something that no other character has to do, and you won’t always find a safe opportunity to oil up.
I see people talking about Kuroda’s Q. If you’re amazing at parrying, playing Q isn’t so bad since he can get insane, easy damage off a successful parry. But yes, you do have to be amazing at parrying. Kuroda also made DVDs for all but four 3rd Strike characters, so it’s not surprising to see someone like him winning with low tier characters. He knows his matchups extremely well.
This is starting to turn more into Hakan discussion but I think my issue right now is using “safe” mixups perse. I tend to think “No one has seen this before!” do it, whiff, and die. This is constant with all of my games actually when I use characters no one else does which is another bad habit to break.
Back on topic.
This is what I’ve noticed happens quite a bit. If I throw in say The Avengers team, people run up and have no fear. I replace Cap with Zero and suddenly they back off. Similarly in SFxT, I throw Juri in first and suddenly everyone is afraid to jump in as opposed to if I put Lili or Asuka first.
sometimes, but generally only among mid level players, people will play exceptionally recklessly against people who play low tier characters, overestimating their advantage from their stronger character. not something I’d rely on, but I’ve been on both ends of it.
