A newcomer today has it just as hard with all the information that was required to be decent, but a million times easier due to instant access to that information. Think about this complaint and put it into perspective:
there’s no IN-GAME tutorial for footsies…I have to reach for my tablet, go to youtube, and watch one that some caring individual made for me. ON TOP OF THAT, I also have to go to my smart phone and visit SRK to read about everything I’ll need to know about my game, character and recent advances in gameplay…but that’s too hard…I want the game to teach me.
I think links should go away personally. A lot of people are playing these games online and and even offline links just arent fun to learn in my humble opinion. I’m not saying combos need to be dial a launcher like MVC or SFxT basic combos. Im just saying removing super strict timing would make the game more friendly while still have the mind games and strategy. I would gladly trade SF2 wake up reversal timing into SF4 and remove links. I really go into MVC 3 because the timing wasnt strict like SF4. Granted you can play characters like doom or mag that have even more strict timing on combos but I enjoy being able to play that game and not get reversal-ed because I was off by a 20th of a second… Also the fact that people have to plink to get around the system makes the issue stand out a lot more too.
I know this opinion is probably not popular on a forum like this with people putting in so much time to learn these things. But in the end there is PLENTY to master in all of capcoms fighters. I dont know why sitting in training mode for 3 hours to get slightly better at a bnb is something we embrace.
You don’t need links to play and have fun with most of the cast, if not ALL of them. There’s some characters that relies more on links, yes, but they’re not mandatory, especially if you don’t intend to compete at the highest of levels.
It’s only in the past 5 or 6 years (mostly since SFIV), with internet videos, tutorials and all that crap that people started to believe that OMG! I CAN’T PLAY THE GAME WITHOUT KNOWING 1F LINKS.
You don’t need to learn 1f links, you don’t need to learn plink neither (ChrisG mains Sakura and doesn’t plink). I seldom use links, since I’m not confident I can hit them most of the time, I don’t plink and I never risk 1F links, yet I have an OK record playing online since Vanilla maining Blanka (a character that needs 1f link to hit 2 cr.LK) and now Decapre.
Also, Street Fighter have links since World Warriors (I don’t know about SF1).
Links are a natural result of animations frames, and not a barrier implemented by evil, unfair and elitist developers in conjunction with top player illuminati.
Plinks aren’t mandatory, nor where they intended, but rather discovered by the community in order to make things easier…but apparently easier isn’t good enough and people want “easiest”.
To ask for removal of 1-frame links in favor if larger windows of input for all moves and characters is like asking to rewrite grammar so that 5 spaces are needed after every period just so you definitely know where one sentence end and another begins. Links are just part of this game, but if you want more frames of animation try Tekken…but even then, I’m sure folks will find a way to complain about 14f punishes.
Misleading. Yes, there are games with 1F links where hitting those links isn’t conducive to improvement. SF4 is not one of them. The game was designed around needing 1f links to do serious damage, in a generally low-damage environment.
And the idea that a game’s mechanic isn’t problematic because of it not applying to sub-high level play is silly.
I understand tight links are a part of SF4. I probably wasn’t clear. I wasnt saying to redesign every character to remove 1 or even 2 frame links and change frame data. I was simply saying that IMO the tight links that are specifically a characters BNB, need to go away in the future. In SF5 for instance, if capcom wants to make the SF series more friendly (which was recently reported).
SFXT was much more approachable due to the timing in windows. MK is more dial a combo like MVC is although it does have its take on execution and its that you cant push the button more than once to get the proper combo to come out. Which to me makes them more approachable which is what this topic is about.
SF is inherently more creative than dial a combo set combo games because its up to the community to find stuff that fits within the frame data. I would prefer they find a way to keep that but at the same time make the windows larger. Maybe loops can be 1 or 2 frame (getting and extra spinning leg kick with ibuki for instance). But a standard bnb for every character should be 3 minimum (with decent damage) so that average joes can do something cool. The Sakos of the world can still find unique stuff to do and extend or do slightly more damage. Its 6 different attack buttons after all.
I have no doubt you can make a game that allows casual people to actually do real combos and still allow elite players to continue to surprise us with new things. The highest level of SF is rarely about execution anyway. If anything its mentioned when there is a lack of execution. Its more about the meta, spacing and match ups. That would be no different if you had at least 1 BNB usable for every player even if they are new to fighters or casual.
ArcSys games have links but it’s more about chains, and how each chain variation has its place. Chains > links, from a design standpoint, from an ease-of-use standpoint, from a standpoint of just performing them day-to-day.
SF Alpha 1 was going down this route, but bullheaded players pissed and moaned at Capcom that it didn’t “feel good” or some garbage.
In order:
Actually, “all I’m saying” is exactly what I said genius, not whatever the fuck your delusional head replaced it with.
@OP
Is your mistake for even falling for the PR bullshit of Capcom in the 1st place.
How many games outside sfiv and marvel3 have you played?
I ask this because you say fighting games in plural when we have companies like ASW, Sega, Tecmo, LabZero to name some putting good tutorials on their games besides a simple combo challenge, explaining the mechanics on their games and basics to help them start getting better.
So yeah, companies have been started to do it, but i guess that if it doesn’t have the Capcom logo it doesn’t matter.
This is usually true on every other game, but in the case of the SF4 series, they were implemented purposely because paraphrasing Ono, it is something that the hardcore players will dig.
Links could also be dealt with by simply implementing a buffer system; you keep the exact same frame data, but expand the window of entry for a button press. There’s no mechanical reason they have to be so precise.
Interesting opinions, unfortunately the “spoon feeding” argument is not a sound one. From a business point of view, Capcom needs to do everything possible to keep new players interested. And yes, this means a fully functional tutorial mode and reduced learning curve (easier links, lower execution requirements). You guys may not appreciate (or care) about the dire business situation that Capcom is in, but if this keeps up, there won’t be any future Street Fighter games for you to complain about…
So all this talk of: “It’s the players responsibility to find the information” is irrelevant because that line of thinking will only hurt sales in attracting new players. The only thing that matters (to Capcom) is that the next Street Fighter game sells more copies and keeps new players interested, while also having a high skill ceiling to keep the hardcore satisfied. A win-win.
This is going to happen whether you like it or not, Capcom has already alluded that they want to make the next SF game more accessible to new players. I guess you can vote with your wallet, but the greater stream of new incoming players will probably make you irrelevant anyway.
Take Ryu for exemple, his best meterless punish is solar plexus - cr.hp - shoryuken which does 320 or so and it’s a 1f link. You replace cr.hp with st.mk which is now a 2f link and you lose 10 damage, big deal. Evil Ryu can do 373 with a basic 2f link, Seth has high damage combos that don’t require 1f links and I could go on. You’re delusional if you think you can’t get decent at this game without 1f links, sometimes I get beat by players who have terrible execution but good general knowledge and fundamentals, which is a lot more important than adding a little extra damage with 1f links.
Characters you don’t need 1 frame links, FADCs, or special techniques (such as pianoing or IAJK) to play at a middling level
Akuma
Balrog
Cammy
Chun Li
Cody
Dan
Dee Jay
Dhalsim
Dudley
El Fuerte
Gouken
Guile
Hugo
Ibuki
Ken
M.Bison
Oni
Poison
Rolento
Ryu
Sagat
Seth
T.Hawk
Yun
Zangief
So 24 characters can get by fine without learning anything harder than a 2f link; there’s no FADCs that are core to their game (Such as Yang off his Rekka or Sakura off her EX Shouken), no weird things to learn (Fierce Feint Fierce, Hands), no 1f hit confirms (Rufus, Guy). Over half the cast.
I’m not saying that the current link system is good; I think it’s pretty stupid and really could use a buffer. Just that most characters don’t need anything you can perfect over the course of a week.
SF2 - Very hard to get into, easy to master once you figure it out
SF4 - Very easy to get into, hard to master because of numerous sub-systems
SF3 - Hard all the way through
SFxT - Easy to get into, only hard to master for certain characters (Mishimas, Blanka, etc…)
SRK should have a “read it to me” button so I don’t have to read all these posts myself…then auto-respond with the best response that can get me the most thumbs ups and likes…then I too can get them five stars next to my name.
If SRK wants any chance of attracting and keeping new people as members, they’ll implement the read me button during the next update…otherwise I foresee this site going the way of MySpace and Path.