You’re 100% right. The community should embrace and help out the new players. That was never the point of contention. If you read my posts (before calling me an ass), I listed community after community that a new player could reference and get help from. All I’m saying is that it’s not the game’s responsibility to provide that knowledge…that responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of that new player as to how deep they want their fighting game experience to be. Expecting the game to give you everything you need is an unfair expectation and one that should fall on that communities shoulders, rather than the game or developer.
This is where you and I fundamentally disagree. I think it’s clear we’re at an impasse, so I won’t belabor the point further.
What Starcraft does have is some of the best wikis i’ve seen for a competitive game.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Strategy
Practically everything you need to know about the game in one wiki, from matchup specific strategies a whole list of relevant ones, detailing how to execute them, their strengths, weaknesses and everything, general advanced techniques, etc… all in detail and organized and constantly updated. Dota 2 wiki at a glance was similarly as helpful. though I haven’t really stuck to the game yet
Would be great if SF4 had a wiki nearly as detailed and constantly updated as those.
I actually think that Starcraft has a pretty good tutorial in the campaign. It introduces the units, has missions that teach micro, gives you a sample build order (although not an optimal one), has missions where you manage multiple bases, introduces caster units with special characters and makes you use them solo, gives you certain units designed to beat other units and expects you to learn which work through trial and error… all in the main campaign. Sure, it doesn’t give you the optimal strategy to win Starleague, but it introduces all the skills you need to play and gives you practice with most of them. It certainly does prepare you for a more competitive atmosphere online than just throwing you straight into Battle.net.
It’s certainly better than arcade mode/ trial mode/ nothing, but RTS do lend themselves better to single player than fight gaems. I think so, anyway.
Why not just take notes from KI’s tutorial mode? That was pretty in-depth. Capcom could do alot with that.
You mean I can’t just use Seth’s Poongko combo with a 360 pad anymore? What has the universe been doing all this time??
I don’t think that’s really true. I do think that very few fighting games have actually tried to do much with single-player besides making it functionally identical to versus except for a little bit of talking before the fight starts.
You could throw in unique opponents that can only be damaged with combos or take double damage from counterhits. Mix them in with real playable characters from the game so you can learn/practice something in one game and then apply it against a character you could realistically fight online. I don’t think it’s necessarily that RTS have any sort of advantage, but fighting game creators seem to think of single player as superfluous and that is basically in there because it has to be. If more thought were applied, I’m sure that very creative and useful single-player modes could be implemented.
I have always said this. Like one of Dhalshim’s trials requires you to teleport to do the combo, but there’s no explanation of what you need to do so you are lost. You have to go online to find out something that should be clearly explained. Or have a demo button like so many games have now.
I can agree with that sentiment. Trials are intuitive to me now after playing for a bit but…
Do it in the corner.
Do it after a jump in.
Do it with this spacing.
Wtf? No way a new player is going to get that and they wont know trials are useless for player vs player play.
I only do trials to snag that character flag when i want to try a new char lol [One of Juri’s trials were obnoxious as fuck]
Killer instinct got it right. Great tutorial for newcomers, great tutorial if you a FG player and want to know whats different with KI vs your game.
At the same time whining players are in every game.
People ask dumb shit on all forums despite stickies.
People talk shit if you don’t know how to play the game but they do + vice versa.
People post in the wrong spot people talk shit.
That will never change and the only difference is how strong the moderation is.
The questions people answer that require 2-3 minutes of searching or watching a couple matches to figure out are numerous.
Its not surprising people get sick answering simple questions. I know i do.
reading this thread made me mad so i had to register.
So the OP wants this game to be easier? Nothing comes easy. You have to work for it. Making SF easy to win will kill the whole game.
Anyone here played unreal tournament 2004? Noobs complained so much about how fast pace the game was, bla bla. Epic games listened to the noobs and when UT3 came out, its goal was to attract new, noob, casual players. Epic games made UT3 easier to win, guns did more damage, etc… all the pros and hardcore UT players left and UT pretty much died. UT2004 still got more online servers vs UT3…
stop being a crybaby noob and work your ass. I am a noob and i enjoy the challenge. I dont want SF to be a game that does a 5 hit combo with 1 input or 2 fireballs will kill you.
and you wanna go to work for 6 hrs and get paid for 8 hrs. Or want to get paid $15 /hr working at McD because $8/hr is not good enough. Earn it! Stop crying. Always asking for free handouts instead of working for it.
sf4 combos are perhaps the easiest to learn. Try doing guile’s redizzy combo in sf2 turbo or his standing flash kick combos. You will quickly realize how hard those combos are vs sf4 combos.
Since when did casual players give a shit about anything the OP mentioned? Casual players care about learning the intricacies of every match-up in a large roster game… said no one ever.
EDIT to be more simple and to the point: It’s just a matter of putting in the time. The fact people can’t seem to grasp this has very little to do with the game and more to do with their inability to pick up a new skill. You’re underestimating the mechanics if you don’t think this takes daily hours of play and constant reading even when you’re not playing. I’ve played on and off since Super and the one thing I noticed is that the more I actually give a damn, the better I do in ranked. Crazy, right?
SFIV actually does have a high execution curve compared to some other games. Want to do somewhere near 50%damage? You got to use 2 different meters, cancelling a move then dashing out to do another move, all while having to hit 1 frame links. Want to do guaranteed 50% in 3rd Strike, just hitconfirm into Super, the mash super jump to extend a bit more.
Like I’ve always said, IV has terrible mid level accessibility because the stuff you need to be competitive is locked behind arbitrary execution barriers.
I had a cooking comparison, but it was flawed and not compelling enough to post.
Just keep cooking. based/prettybitch/bitchmob/taskforce/etc
They don’t. Capcom is under this belief that by keeping stupid shit like 1 frame links, needing to link jabs/shorts despite them already chaining, and character-specific combos in a game with 45+ characters, they’re keeping things “skillful.”
Has there ever been a “casual” fighting game?
Maybe Wii Boxing.
It’s funny because a lot of SF players are freaking elitist pricks who send adolescent messages after a match to determine which person was the actual scrub/noob/turtler/spammer…
Maybe casuals don’t play these games because of the assholes they have to play them with? Maybe it has less to do with button timing and game knowledge and more to do with the general attitude of the “sport”. The attitude, overall, sucks online. There’s a few decent people, but there’s far more jackholes that can’t handle taking a loss and being booted because of laggy connections so they stalk you and tell you they’re going to kill your mother. There’s far, far too many people like that playing this game. I swear people the world over need to be assigned an official emotional quotient that is determined yearly and that EQ gives you access to certain things like driving a car or sucking on a ba-ba.
Fair point, but isn’t there a balance between rewarding ‘putting in the time’ and simple skill (although of course the two feed into each other to an extent)? I.e., couldn’t Capcom do more to make it so that you don’t need to invest hundreds of hours just to be competitive online by, e.g., cutting some of the fat off the roster and having less 1-framers?
Before SF4 was released, people like this thread starter would be laughed out of the forum. Do you want a pad with a big button on it that says “WIN”? When should a company stop catering to your need of wanting to beat people easily? It already rewards you for playing like shit, is the most accessible fighting game out right now, and has tons of comp from shit to great. You are a joke, pack it up, go play co-op games. Fighting games are not for you.