I can’t lurk anymore, this needs to be brought to attention. There are certain tactics within SSF4 that makes fei-longs life hard and i need to have a brainstorm with you all on how we can avoid falling into these match momentum actions.
If you recongise my Gamertag (same as my username) then hey there lol you can see i take fei seriously too. I’ll list some of my dilemmas:
Guiles Sonic Boom Recovery. It’s beyond God-Like. Blankas Ultra 2 exists PURELY to punish Fireball throwers from full screen, i’ve seen it timed to come out so well Guile is in the frozen motion just about to finish forming a boom and recovers in time to block. You can imagine then Fei’s chicken wing is close to useless on reaction, you need to actively PREDICT when he’s going to do it and we can’t live with that in this time of age.
…Incorrectly Chicken Wing (i prefer to use EX when i want to go through fireballs at speed) and you’ll eat a standing fierce.
Ibuki’s knife cross up shenangins, we can’t EX chicken through it, can’t focus and dash back or forth, can’t flame kick, it’s mad hard to determine which end it’ll end up. Has anyone worked out a consitant way to escape this vortex? Before you suggest it, Ultra 2 isn’t too helpful except for metagame in this match up, hence why they’re more likely to use the knife as safety.
Fei Long’s main weakness is all charge characters. Why do i say this? Because their prime strong point is the ability to charge via holding back, our task is to push individuals into the corner, but we put ourselves in danger by holding forward.
Want a good example? Bison. His hitbox when he walks back is very threatening with his phenominal standing kicks or quick scissor kicks.
Expanding on 3, down back is a worse factor when it comes to Guile, i’ve seen Starnab defeat Dimenion or however you spell his name back on SF4 and it was all good. But the way they’ve beefed up Guile for this generation isn’t a joke, ImStillTheDaddy and Shinji XX is two top guile players in terms of thinking outside of the box when trapped in a corner.
I’ve posted a wall of text, sorry, but i’ll name more points if anyone will be helpful and get on board in this brainstorm. Yes i do read the match up threads and they’ve helped me progress to where i am today, but a majority are outdated so i figured i’d speak to you all directly.
So what did you want help with? Yes those are bad matchups for Fei, you have to get a life lead and turtle. Guile, you must be patient and just accept that you’ll have to block some sonic booms, and walk him to the corner. Sure, they can get out, but if you don’t over extend yourself, that’ll be a lot of work on their part and you can take out more life than he can with the booms in that position. Charge characters are not an easy fight, for sure, but they are all beatable. You just can’t play the same way you would fight others.
I think this would have been better off in the questions thread, so if anyone has the power of moving it, please do, but in the process of helping other players Ima try to answer these.
Let me begin by saying there are a lot better fei players then me, but on these match-ups here are some of the things that I try to keep in mind.
Guile match-up is tough, but while your right about the sonic boom recovery you should not be using ex-CW from anything other then less then half screen, unless you can successfully time your opponents booms, and even then it’s still a risk @ least online anyway. Don’t be afraid to block/FA these things they don’t do a lot of damage to begin with so if you mess up doing this your not losing a lot of life anyway. Also don’t fall into a pattern of FA’n them either. mix neutral jumps FA’s so he can’t time your jumps to air throw (leaving him in a guessing game). Usually guile will work himself into the corner unless you have an aggressive guile on your hands, at which point they aren’t charging (unless they use bazooka knee) so you can go about your normal means of getting in and mixing-up ect. While trying to CW through or over a sonic boom is a rewarding thing, it shouldn’t be used as your main means of getting in. Once guile is in the corner pressure him from a distance with FA at max range. Other then that you should be pressuring, falling back to bait a flash kick or jump out, and mixing up. This match-up is very similar to balrog, and bison in that you have to keep your cool, play patiently and thoughtfully, there is no need to rush in all the time.
Yea I hear ya… It sucks, but the best advice that I’ve been given is to keep track of Ibuki while she is jumping, if you can imagine that your character is on a plain, the Y-axis going from the center of fei up, before she crosses this axis you would block away from her, but once she crosses it you will have to block again away from her, but fei will not be turned yet, so it will be just like blocking a cross up (I hope this makes sense). Unfortunately it’s just one of those things that you have to get used to reacting to. the great part is if they mess up it leaves her wide open for a punish.
You are correct in saying that charge characters are a problem for fei, but I do feel that a lot of it is knowing the match-ups, and knowing what to do in certain situations and what not to do. The common misconception that I find with fei is that he is a rush down character, and while this is true people take it as rush in and rush in and rush in. Fei is a very strong character but has to be played very differently in comparison to other rush down characters. You have to get in do your damage and get out, keeping in mind where you are on the screen. Roughly a 1/4 screen away from your opponent, to me at least, seems to be his sweet spot, you can lp. rekka relatively safely, just the right distance to catch jump-ins, and you yourself can work your way back in and punish things, or move a little bit forward and over head, ect. Fei HAS to be played patiently, as all of his moves are not safe, and when they are have to be done from max range, which usually isn’t a good idea.
anyways, I hope this helps, and I hope some others can give you some insight on somethings that you should and should not be doing.
It’s not so much charge characters, but keep away characters. Bison is NOT a tough match for Fei, it’s very even, in my opinion its one of the most “even” match ups in the game due to both characters offensive ability and poking. If you are losing to Bison you need to FIGHT him more. Get in and dance with his standing roundhouse with your crouching medium kick. Or shut up his standing medium kick with standing fierce. It’s a high pressure fight on both sides, don’t hide.
Guile and Dahlsim are easily your two worst matches, followed by chun, and if you don’t know the match, Seth can be tricky too. The problem lies as you said in the recovery of boom and ability to keep you back. That’s Fei’s main weakness, the keep away game is VERY effective on him.
For Guile, you have to focus your way through his booms, get him in the corner and KEEP him there. He can’t jump out from the corner because standing roundhouse beats all of his jumping attacks at that range, no need to risk going under him with a flame kick. Do NOT try to chicken wing through booms on Guile. His hit box is hard to hit with chicken wing when he crouches and his normals are good enough that he will most likley recover and just crouching fierce you out of it. The better option is to fight him with normals and if you see him stand up and crouch back down, overhead. Knowing when he has down charge is important. Fei’s overhead is good, but still long enough to be flash kicked on reaction, I know.
Dahlsim is a really lame fight, but if you play it lame you win. You need to get in with focus through his limbs or just walk block and focus a bit. Fei’s neutral jump roundhouse hits behind him a bit better in this game so try to bait fireball teleport shenanigans and come down on him hard with roundhouse. The point to Dahlsim is, once you have a solid life lead… HIDE. When Dahlsim is forced to go after Fei and stop playing defense, it goes horribly wrong for him. He doesn’t have many fast offensive options outside slide mixups and Fei’s damage is so good that if Dahlsim botches the job on his offense it could cost him the match quickly. The alternative to this method is if you have Dahlsim in the corner, his options are limited so hammer him for what damage you can. If he manages to escape and you have a solid life lead… you’ve won so long as you play the rest of the round safe.
Keep away is Fei’s biggest weakness, and it’s somethign you have to learn to fight through if you are going to main Fei. Focus, hold your ground, and don’t let the keep away characters out of the corner if you get them there.
As a martial artist and a fei player here is my advice
“A good fight should be… like a small play, but played seriously. A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Not thinking, yet not dreaming. Ready for whatever may come. When the opponent expands, I contract and when he contracts, i expand. And when there is an opportunity… I do not hit. It hits all by itself.” – Bruce Lee: Enter the Dragon
Looking back, i should have posted this in the question thread. My apologies!
But these answers so far have been what i’ve looking for. Believe me when i say i play more than enough charge characters on a regular basis lol 360 players must recongise the name ‘Grim is Godlike’ for Bison and ‘ImStillTheDaddy’ for Guile.
I forgot all about Dhalsim, it’s a patient game when it comes to him so i generally know how to vs him and what not. It’s just annoying how much work you have to put in just to close him down lol.
I’d like to know what you all consider your hardest match ups amongst the cast, i’m not talking about Tier List and what fei’s match up rating is, i mean you personally as the individual.
I know Fei’s never been a true rushdown character like Vortex possessers, he’s more of a momentum type. If the match switches in your favour due to momentum with Rekkas, BnBs and trickery then you can find anyone can lose a match withi seconds just for that brief moment of doubt or hesitation.
It’s good to brainstorm with users who know what they’re doing too. That Ibuki advice may just be what i need to start blocking the knife more consistantly.
You can auto correct to beat the Kunai with flame kick… you can also auto correct ultra in some situations. I’ve been fighting Jibbo a lot who is probably the best Ibuki I have seen so far…Fei runs the fight UNTIL she gets a knock down, then things can become really painful. Trying to chicken wing out isn’t that effective as her positioning can fuck your inputs up and you’ll end up getting owned. Your best bet is to input reverse DP as she jumps over you and then wait a sec, then hit K as you stand up. if you do it right, Fei will turn around and DP her as she is coming down. It’s kinda hard but it’s worked a lot for me.
Her focus is kind of a problem because it’s so damn fast… it makes poking her pretty difficult, but you do definitely have the better pokes here. Just get a life lead and turtle vs her… she can’t crack defense that well from neutral situations and most of her hits she’ll get will be counter hits / punishes so, make her work for it. Be careful with rekkas because she can punish even the first hit with st.LP st.MK neck break into vortex.
the main problem for me with these matchups and i think the same may apply to you is most of us arent good at teching throws. As an example, the Blanka matchup is annoying due to this reason alone. Can’t tech = auto lose. If you can though, the matchup is very fair and in some cases in your favor.
o btw i wish some time in the future Fei’s overhead can link into a combo to stop this BS turtle fest every round.
Yea tech’n throws is a pain with blanka because of his shenanigans, but the crouch tech option select is money, and really helps with this match-up. If you don’t know what this is there is a video of p-linking in the simple question thread that I had posted, the video starts out with the crouch tech option select. Check it out if it’s new to you, and if not, the best advice i can give ya is work on identifying the blanka balls, that alone will make the match-up easier.
lol another thing id like to point out is dont ever give anyone online players too much credit thinking their any good. A good 99% of the people online just mash reversals on everything so i rarely attempt combos. This especially applies to Ryu/Ken players whom i still lose to occasionally because who would have expected that after 3 Punished SRK’s theyll attempt it again? Its really stupid but the lp.DP system is so low risk high reward against characters like Fei that i dont even blame them for doing it. For the most part they can do it at a range where you’d only be able to hit him with a poke. Rekkas work but mistiming it can pretty much cost you the game due to DP> Super/Ultra. It might be really boring and lame but just sit back and hold tight once you have a significant life lead and let them do most of the work. Its when the timer starts ticking when the match really gets somewhere.
lp srk has gay recovery anyway. There’s no way you can punish the shit unless you anticipated it. Heck, i got caught from a srk>ultra countless of times simply because I was one or two frames late for punishing a lp srk.
Makes me wonder again why FeiLong’s fk has that weird hop on recovery.
-on the keep away characters, you must ALWAYS use your Command Grab shenanigans! mix it up… cr. short, standing jab to ex tenshin. or block string to rekka. keep your options available. Fei’s corner game is one of the best in the game. and you shud use the command grab mixups to your advantage especially if its a defensive player.
Realistically there are no situations where you should melee her knife over focus cancelling for meter, if you’re on chip damage death then you’re dancing with the devil then instead of dodging.
I need to learn auto correct DP’s, are there any tutorials or such available?
How do you people feel personally about…Standing Fierce as an Anti Air? Has anyone properly adapted it into their gameplay? I used it once or twice earlier today and i felt it was STRONG, but the risk is high if they use the correct air move (Sagats Peoples Elbow comes to mind), has anyone tested this out more?
It’s good to read to much input over Fei. I’m trying my best to surpass Mago on the boards (Doesn’t mean i’m better than him, just for bragging rights since the Japanese are so godlike)