I know all the wrong things

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
1

So over the summer I started playing fighting games. Like actually playing and trying to get better. Mostly just SF, I played in arcades a bit as a kid. I was always fascinated by it. I found I like the way the game works in general better than most other fighting games like Injustice or MK. Though I think I’ll buy MKX just cause it looks horribly fun.

So USF4… I think I know what my problem is but I’m having trouble fixing it. I’ve learned some things since my post about being unable to do combos. I fixed that issue. I understand the game mechanics. I can tell you what FADCing, frame traps, plinking, wiff punishes, and those types of things are. I’m just having trouble applying it. I’m horrible at reading people, and I’m even worse at getting out of a rushdown, even when I block it all and I know exactly what is coming next!

I main Gouken. Why? I have no clue. I just think he’s cool. Other characters I like: Cammy, C. Viper, Ryu and Abel. I went through a charge character stage where I liked Balrog, but I think I should fix my issues on “regular” characters first… Anyhow, Gouken.

cr.mp xx hado. not a problem.
st.hp xx palm. not a problem.
st.hp xx ex.palm ultra2 (and variations). not a problem.

So I know how to do some basic combos, just easy things that apparently everyone who plays Gouken can do. But when I go online, I get demolished. And when I say demolished, I mean completely crushed. Like it’s actually somewhat depressing. There I am sitting there on my xbox, against the top rank E.Ryu or like 9th Sagat, and pretty much all I can do is attempt to block his rush, and fail miserably. There are like two things I just don’t understand and can’t find anywhere. What the hell is a safe jump? People jump in on me all the time, and cr.hp or shoryu or tatsu never seems to be a good anti-air. The other thing I don’t really understand is hit confirming. Jumping in never seems to be a good option (but I have no idea anymore since I clearly don’t understand jumping at all as I said above). Like I can chain some light punches together and if I’m lucky hit the 1 frame link cr.mp and then a hadouken. That is about the extent of my hit confirming. I think what I’m trying to say is I can do a combo on a practice dummy, but I can’t set up the situation in a real match where I can perform that combo. Does that mean my footsie game sucks? In which case I apparently don’t fully understand footsies either. I’ve watched all the videos, maybe someone here has a better explanation?

So yeah, jumping, hit confirms, and footsies, I’m lost.

Can anyone help me? Love SF, but damn is this game frustrating sometimes… 8.22% win percentage online lol. I’ve honestly watched just about all the videos there are to watch.

2

I like that reason, stick with him!

These are all cancels, learn links too. Very important.

Set up your own lobby and select similar skill when you’re sick of getting wailed on. As you get better, be sure to dip out and in of same-skill though, you’ll benefit more from a lobby of good players than beginner players, regardless, but I know it can be frustrating.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Gw91WQrVY

This will come with links, footsies and dummy training. (see below)

It’s not, don’t do it til you know why you’re doing it. (see footsies below)

Set your dummy to record, get them to put up a fight with some fireballs, jabs and reversals and then try to get in. It’s less pressure than a real opponent still, but it’s a stepping stone.

Read this: http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

Congrats! 8.22 win% means nothing when you’re starting out, don’t worry. Keep fighting, keep losing, keep watching replays of your losses, keep learning.

3

  1. Well your answering your own question. The very least you understand how the game works your simply losing to better players and that’s all there is to it.

  2. I used to use Cammy all the time since I didn’t want to waste time doing chip damage. Gouken can dash back and just spam projectiles to some degree which many players still get hit by them often.

  3. Basic tutorial combos should be enough, combo videos are more or less just for show you can’t easily pull them off all the time as if it were MvC.

  4. Most players who are still playing SF have been around for a long time.

  5. That’s very bad. Your should try a different character but if that doesn’t work well what is there to say, other players are simply a lot better because 8% might as well be 0%.

4

So no jumping. Okay. Makes sense now that I think about it more… What about divekicks?

I’m still left a bit confused by footsies even after reading. So what are you looking for? Obviously a favorable situation, but when you get it, then what? Like lets say you counter poke someone’s st.mk, then what? Dash forward and begin an attack string and confirm into a combo/execute a block string? I’m still always baffled now watching pros play. I’m having trouble grasping how to actually start dealing damage once I gain the upper hand poking at the opponent.

Assuming I don’t play the footsie game… what do I do? Of course you have to sometimes, but like with E.Ryu or Cammy, it seems a lot of people just attempt long strings that overwhelm me. Should I just play the poke game?

5

It seems like you’re trying to find the right answer for every situation and the fact is there is none. No one can tell you one single piece of advice that will answer everything. I can’t tell you what to do but i’ll tell you what works for me (im not pro by any means, far too lazy lol). When i poke someone, my next decision is made based on how my match is going. If you counter poke someone and they keep clamming up and blocking without moving, it might be a good idea to pressure them by throwing another poke or dashing in and applying close pressure if you REALLY know they wont blow through your pressure with an invicible/ex move.

Say everytime you counter poke a yun player, he steps back and then divekicks. Clearly moving in or poking again is a bad idea because you’ll eat a divekick leading into yun shenanigans. In a situation like this, i wait and then anti-air (im E.Ryu so i HP SRK against yun, or neutral jump and land on him and combo him).

Also, footsies isn’t about dancing around and throwing your best poke hoping to hit. It’s analytical meaning you are analyzing what your opponent does and CAN do, and then reacting accordingly. This is where counter-poking comes from and it’s a huge part of footsies and neutral game. Its not only about know the range of YOUR poke and WHEN to press it, but also its about knowing YOUR OPPONENT’S poke, as in knowing which moves they use, the range of the move, when you’re in that range and when you’re out of it, and of course picking the appropriate move from your arsenal to counter said poke.

This guy breaks it down more/better than me:

At the end of the day i can spew theory and tell you what to/what not to do, but practice really is THE answer. You HAVE to get used to these situations, you have to not give a FUCK about losing (which is difficult as much as people like to pretend its not). Repetition alone won’t fix you however, it’s a balance between PLAYING OFTEN, and then ANALYZING your matches often.

Losing is good in street fighter, every time you lose there’s an opportunity for you to learn and become better. Losing a match versus winning truly does not matter. Dont play to win, play to learn.

Sorry for long ass reply.

6

Here’s a fun thing about Gouken: he really doesn’t need to go in if he starts winning the ground game. If he starts getting a decent lifelead, he can just back off and start throwing fireballs. Eventually your opponent will get frustrated and do something risky in order to get back into the game, which usually leaves them open for punishment. If they jump, you can smack them out of the air with c.HP or EX tatsu. If they try to walk into the range of your normals, you can sweep them. If they throw out an attack at a bad spot, you can whiff punish it. If you block an unsafe attack, you can make them cry because Gouken has completely bonkers punish combos.

While this doesn’t really explain how to open people up, it’s important to note that forcing mistakes and capitalizing on them is one of the most important aspects of playing fighting games. By playing a simple zoning game (one of Goukens biggest strengths), you’re essentially doing just that, and at the same time you’ll learn several aspects of the game that I personally think are more important than opening people up. Anti-airs and the ability to make people press buttons (or not press buttons) at the wrong times is very important no matter what character you play.

Also, watch the tutorial ItsNotJackieChan posted. While it’s not stuff that you’ll need to focus on early, keeping it in the back of your head will help you get better.
(also, another thing he said, which is “wait and anti-air them” is VERY applicable to Gouken. EX tatsu is 200 damage. That’s… a lot)

7

Haha all good I think I get it a little more now. I’ve actually watched that video like twice all the way through :pensive: I learn a little better reading and doing rather than watching though. Re-watching matches only leaves me slightly stunned in a funny way by the stupidity of the things I attempt. I suppose realizing you’re an idiot is the first step to not being one lol.

So you’re not necessarily looking to do damage by comboing after a poke, more like just looking to create an opening by messing with people? Is that an accurate description? More mind games than anything else? Like Daigo seems to just get people thinking a certain way then does some kind of crazy shit that surprises people and they don’t know what to do.

I think I actually get the footsies now… but I’m still having trouble with rushdowns. Poking at people tends to just get me destroyed when an E. Ryu or Cammy or what have you comes flying at me. Is it generally just best to block and let them chill? The trouble I have is when I do that, I get mixed up bad and thrown all over the place. Sometimes I manage to read the throws sometimes not. Obviously I can’t spend the whole game blocking… I get afraid to push a button and get stuck though.

Also just regarding throws… a lot of people I’ve played online will make like they’ll throw when they get a knockdown on me then jump and I throw and they combo. Is jumping like that a good tactic? The few times I’ve tried I get hit with a wakeup. It seems like a bit of an online thing that wouldn’t work on better players. Should I stick to no jumping and just like file that away somewhere?

8

There’s a definite difference between things you know and things you know. That is, things you understand cognitively, what they are, can explain them, and things that are beaten and instilled into you by practice and experience. The footsies video is like that. Watch it, think about it, go play. Just play and ask if you’re doing that footsies stuff or so not. Set a goal to try working with that mindset in a match and just do that for a time. Sleep. Play more, maybe you find an annoying poke. Try in practice mode what you can best use to punish it with. Play. Sleep. Maybe watch the video again.

Learning the neutral game is a slow, slow process because playing it well is in large part unconscious.

9

I’m a beginner too so take everything I say with a grain of salt…

1 - Yes it’s generally best to block (you don’t really have a choice), but I wouldn’t say “let them chill”, because they probably won’t. I think it just takes practice on understanding when there is a gap in your opponents attack and then make a move. Randomly pressing buttons in hopes to get out will rarely work and it’s bad habit. Do you know about crouch-techs? I think it’s the most important defensive tool in the game

2 - That’s part of the mix-up and it’s why getting knocked down is such a bad thing. It’s up to YOU to guess and take a chance.

Is jumping a good tactic? Sometimes. Let’s take E. Honda for example. If he knocks you down he can - do nothing, bait you, perform an attack, do a regular throw (although I don’t think he’d want to), or do a command throw. Let’s take ‘do nothing’ and ‘regular throw’ out of the equation. So he can bait you, attack, or command throw.

If he baits you…

  • If you block, you win.
  • If you jump, you probably lose.
  • If you throw a jab, probably nothing bad will happen.
  • If you mash a DP (or in your case, an EX Tatsu), you lose big.

If he attacks you…

  • If you block, he’ll maintain pressure, push you a little more towards the corner, build a little meter and maybe do some chip damage. You lose, but it could be worse.
  • If you jump, you’ll probably get hit out of your jump (this is where I’m fuzzy. I think E. Honda’s cr. LK will keep you from jumping but maybe he has some moves you can jump over? Not sure)
  • If you throw a jab, you lose. (Unless you opponent doesn’t throw a proper meaty attack)
  • If you mash a DP, you win.

If he does a command throw…

  • If you block, you lose.
  • If you jump, you win (possibly a big win).
  • If you throw a jab, you lose.
  • If you mash a DP…hmmm, I’m not really sure what happens. I think it’s character specific. Maybe someone else can help me with that.

That’s all I got. Hopefully most of it is accurate info and I didn’t just feed you a bunch of bullshit.

10

I understand what crouch techs do but it’s kind of fuzzy. I don’t know anything besides the grab one. Or if that’s the only one I guess I do know about them then lol.

11

A crouch tech is just crouching and pressing lp+lk(+optional third button). It’s an option select where if the opponent tries to throw you, you tech the throw and if not, a button comes out. A typical sign of someone mashing crouch tech is them spamming low light kicks (they take precedence over jabs). Shoto players will sometimes crouch tech with lp+lk+mp which amounts to cr.mp OS throw tech.

You can bake throw techs into basically anything in this game. Just press lp+lk while doing something. If you have under two bars, lp+lk+mp+mk gives you a focus OS throw tech that you can then backdash out of. It kills most simple ground pressure cold.

12

Ohhhhh okay I see. I thought it wasn’t actually an option select for some reason. Makes sense. Definitely have a better understanding of everything now.

If anyone is a beginner too and wants to spar together hit me up on 360. Or if you’re good and want to show me anything that’s much appreciated too. Anything Gouken, Viper, Cammy, Abel, or Ryu I’m happy to learn. My GT is: Probs Bullets

13

This cannot be stressed enough, dont worry about winning now. Winning is dangerous as a beginner. Playing better people will make you better because they punish you for doing dumb stuff and you learn not to do dumb stuff. Winning against other new people and scrubs makes you worse because you will be rewarded for do dumb stuff by winning

14

If youre trying to learn all these things online youll always be lost. Try to play people in person, then things will always be the same and you can actually play and learn the real game.