i didnt ignore your post as much as i felt i already have addressed my opinions to what you typed since this thread has started. no need for me to repeat myself, as a response to everything you typed has already been typed by me, although not directed towards you by quoting what you have already responded with. being a joke? okay. a joke about what? i dont see whats so funny, or what im being a joke about. pretty sure everything i typed makes absolute sense. i dont see any extreme flaws in my thinking on how i would like to see mvc2 go in the future.
i have yet to read a valid argument from you as to why i am foolish in my thinking, and selfish in my desires to see this game refresh itself. because everyone who plays marvel seriously plays top tiers is your argument? because noobs need to learn how to defend against msp because you cant win a tourney with rogue/cammy/tron is your argument? i mean, my suggestions dont stop you or anyone else from continuing to do what in marvel that they been doing. if more people decide to take low tiers serious then they want to master top tier teams, then that says something else, and that the old marvel now needs to make a stable home for low tier tournies, and know longer will playing low tiers be the “other thing” in marvel.
its foolish to think that thousands of new players playing marvel now cannot make a drastic change in the future of this game? lol, okay now. read everything i have posted so far, as i have posted a lot, and in significant detail, and all your answers are there. im not saying anything negative towards anyone who knows how to, and plays top tiers. im just saying that the scene just shot up significantly in a few weeks, and i believe its time for a little refresher. i love seeing yipes get busy just like anyone else, but i would love to see some change too. we can have our cake and eat it too. you act like im asking for what is and was to be erased, and lets all just play low tiers with only a top tier mixed in every once in a while.
sorry you’re not. and if you do, expect people to tell you that you’re only playing to win and aren’t having any fun at all (big LOL). sorry, don’t try to gain experience which may help you have crazy fun at higher levels of play, actually be able to compete, and can bring that knowledge back to low tier either :tup: don’t worry, there’s no selfishness involved at all.
but this “revolution” will really truly happen, and that’s not foolish at all either.
It’s interesting to hear you beats because you make good points and yet are yourself an example to the contrary. You tell scrubs to play god tier and then you rape them with mix tiers…lol
Honestly I think everyone should at least play though arcade with every charater… then take the ones you liked best and try them out in training mode in various team configs… find what you really like there… then go online and see what strats people have worked up for those teams… the reality is that soooo much of being good in this game is about execution and instincts… and you can begin to gain both no matter what tier you start out at… then you can begin to think about how your team can compete… and what might need changing…
Simply picking cable, mags, and sent and learning a couple combo’s/tricks for each will get you wins on other scrubs who are playing lower tier… but it wont avail you against vets… it will just goad them into picking their god tier team against you…
Also… learning every character is not only fun because of variety… but it can really help your game against those random people who are really good with wtver character… I’m sure peeps wish they knew anak better every time they fight beats thats for sure…
I’m a new player that has to face these jap players over and over again on the psn that use either mag,sent,storm and would bend over backwards to do these infinites . What advice can you give me. I’m sick of it . I fought at least 20 matches like that in two day and only won 1. I want to use regular characters but I’m afraid that they only can be beat with top tier fighters.
when I firsts started playing low tier, I was playing nothing but team clock all the time. When I practiced daily, local sessions every round and every round @ a tournament. I’d go to local gatherings and tournaments and run spidey\morrigan ron on the side and @ the time, I couldn’t understand how to properly mix someone up. I was always getting counter hit or my rush down was to obvious and the opponent usually got away.
so I train with other top teams like msp and s\s variation for the next year and don’t run low tier much. A few good solid months of nothing but teams that rush down actually made my low tier rush down much more effective. I can see when the opponent felt the pressure and had to move, I could cut off escape angles after the first time seeing them and I knew started to figure out how to really mix someone the fuck up. I love it now that my low tier teams have gotten mad beastly and its only because of the top tier lessons I had to learn. Once I realized what made top tier broken, I took that and applied it to low tier.
Just speaking from EXP. Take it for what its worth.
“I’m a new player that has to face these jap players over and over again on the psn that use either mag,sent,storm and would bend over backwards to do these infinites . What advice can you give me. I’m sick of it . I fought at least 20 matches like that in two day and only won 1. I want to use regular characters but I’m afraid that they only can be beat with top tier fighters.”
You can beat them… but with low tier characters you must outplay them… thats all. Not even as hard as you might think… given that you can predict exactly what they want to do to you… but don’t expect it to happen without years of practice… after all… your opponents have that on their side already.
I’ve gotten a few fellow newbies to start using Felicia after showing them how easily you can get Supers in with her, and usually destroying them with her because of it.
I’m really confused as to why Felicia isn’t popular with below-average players.
I dunno if its Felicia’s game… or the fact that she’s a crazy cat biatch… but you are right… she is one of the rare toons to get picked… overall. she’s got some moves…
I play hulk… (like over 500 ranked matches so far with hulk on every team. psnID: astalas) It’s similar… most people don’t know shit about hulk… he’s easily one of the best characters in the game if you are good at twitch reaction… aka… you see mag twitch as he enters a triangle jump pattern and let loose the gamma charge… you’ll get him 90% of the time… storm also… cable without sent drones also gets crushed a lot…
I’ve seen players I smashed the shit out of in 30 seconds or less using hulk… playing him a few hours later…hehe So best advice I can give is just kick the shit outta people with felicia… and it will be obvious to them why she might be worth a try.
Also knocking off a high quality opponent who’s using god tier while others are spectating… seems to really get cheers for low tier from what I’ve seen…
Fully back on topic… here’s the best reason to not just pick god tier… mind games… for instance… i’ve spent years playing ken… and while he isn’t among the elite of this game… simply picking him as my first character makes my opponent (unless he knows me) think I’m a sf4 scrub…hehe And they pick a subpar team… or start out with chump tactics… all to no avail… That just one small example… so many ways to play mind game at char selection. For a very simple method… twiddle around for a few secs before you pick each of your toons… act like you aren’t sure who you’ll pick… or that are aren’t sure on what type of team to use, or aren’t sure what type of assist you should pick for each… hell you can make a mind game out of intentionally picking the wrong assist… so they think you didnt know which was the best… most vets will pick a lower tier team thinking they are bout to rock a scrub…
Honestly, you don’t have to play top tier to beat top tier teams. It’s just far, far easier to do so, and at high levels of competition you will most likely be playing top tier.
But like I said, you don’t have to (theoretically).
who do you think i should pick or start training with. i like to use jin because hardly no uses him and i like to hurt assist w/ the cyclone then bloodia . but when i go against sent, i can not catch him. I dont like going against mag either but aleast he his always in my face and i get openings sometimes to hurt him. my stryder is aways dead from fighting sent taking about half of his while i’m constantly taking chip damage from sent and doom assist. i just dont want to go to storm or cable or mag because i would be just like everyone else and doing the exact same thing over and over.
You could do something like Jin/Strider/Doom (Jin as battery for Strider; or Strider/Doom/Jin AAA). Strider is a good character vs. Sentinel if you are very careful and don’t mess up. Get orbs going and get on top of him. If you get a hit in, learn to go from orbs to infinite, or snap Sent out to the other team’s main assist. Jin is not terrible but don’t overcommit on things like slide > spin or Blodia if you don’t also have their point character pinned with Doom assist or something (if you’re in a position where Blodia might GB their point though, go ahead). Find a way to use Doom to combo to Blodia and make sure you’re confirming the hit. Probably jab + Doom, strong, Blodia will work, but I’ve not tested. Works with other assists like Tron, does good damage. Don’t be that guy that gets desperate and uses random machine gun supers or starts sliding into explosion AAA thingie over and over. Though probably slide + Doom is pretty OK. Doom rocks is one of the assists like Tron rings and Sent drones that opens up a lot of game for lesser characters where they’re otherwise not viable.
The “doing the same thing over and over” argument doesn’t work because it can be applied to every character in every game. Look at SF4, most characters try to do 3 or 4 things over and over. Only a few characters like Viper and Sim actually have “tricks” in the Marvel sense. At least there is a lot of variety within Marvel’s good characters, more than in most games, which is why people keep playing for years even though they’re still playing the same old Thrax v. scrub, MSP v. MSS, Combo v. Matrix, and so on. Storm is maybe the most complete (allowed) character in any fighter, Sentinel has one of the highest execution ceilings, no one is as fast as Mag, even Cable is more tactical than he’s given credit for, especially if he’s trying to fight Mag or Storm (though that kind of goes away online where jump back + assist + random AHVB wins matches, ha ha, so nevermind).
I know your heart is in the right place, but the bottom line is that when people really want to win the roster shrinks from 56 to about 8. If people didn’t get raped almost every time they strayed from the top tier teams they might be more open to trying out the other 48 characters.
i think the problem with asking new players to create their own team is that you are not just picking a team, but you are actually CREATING a team. If this was a one on one or SNK type team game, then it’d be a non-issue. But in this case you have to understand how the each member of the team works with each other. A player who plays 1 character with an assist will always lose to a player who is playing a team of 3 characters given an equal footing.
The truth is that it takes a long while before a new player can ad-lib a good team. The learning curve for playing this game is fairly-high, but the curve for creating teams in this game in my opinion is even higher.
People that care about this issue should just read this. How are you going to understand how to beat storm/sentinel/cable/magneto/ironman, all with the top assists, if you have never played with them?
It is more than just playing against them, because in marvel, its possible to get raped fast or bad enough to where you just dont understand why you got beat so bad. BUT, if you play WITH the characters, it is almost impossible not to see their advantages and disadvantages. When they are in good positions and bad positions. And what do you know, you might play top tier and somebody play low tier and beat you, double dose of learning in that match. :china:
only way to make low tiers effective against tops is to know how they operate, I completely agree. For instance, sentinel doesn’t like it when you get past his helper then get on his head. Thats one of the hardest angles for him to protect.
of course, you don’t need to play sentinel to know that or his other weaknesses. You can ask someone about matchups or go through a trial and error process with your low tiers to figure that out. I’m sure someone like VDO doesn’t play top tiers if any @ all but he knows how to approach them. My path was different that led to the same conclusion. By playing the top tier characters, I understood what made them good\bad in certain situations and if my low tier can take advantage of it, I try to.
My rush down concepts also came from top tier play. I copied a lot of the magneto concepts and tried to apply it to low tier as much as I could. Magneto has a 4 corner mixup game, high and low both sides. Its one of the factors that make him good along with other things. So if you wanted a low tier character who was good with mixups, you may want to look @ a low tier who has 4 corners to abuse Magneto also has resets that are impossible to block due to hit box placement. He’ll be a few pixels off from being on one side or the other making it very hard to tell what side you’ll end up on. A lot of low tiers can create this with proper timing off most basic setups. Lastly, magneto can do hi\hi to mixup his hi\lo. So I opted to pick characters with instant overheads so i can do stuff like ADF with spidey, quick drop rh, land, instant overhead. Its not magneto EXACTLY, but I do have an option to create a double high to mixup my hi\lo. Its probably common sense to some people but as a strider player, I didn’t have to think about these things before.
Yeah, new players using top tiers… not much of a big deal. They will still get raped by the older and more seasoned players. Although it would be cool if marvel just… started over again, there are to many sources from the “old marvel” and too many new players on youtube.
a player can feel free to follow teams that have long since been created, and have tons of vids on how to use them, from low to high tier, but the people that created these teams are not rocket scientist. lol. its not really that hard to see what assist are going to compliment your character the most. i mean, you kinda have to be a retarded person to not easily go through that quick trial and error to see which assist is good for the 3 characters your deciding to main for the moment.
problem is that people watch something like the top 8 vids from evo, and they think, god, the learning curve for this game is enormous, i have no idea what the fuck just happened, or how theyre moving so fast, and although my opinion is bias considering none of that is considerably new to me. outside of that beastliness you see on tape, marvel is the most technical and complex of the vs series, but its not all that hard to grasp, especially considering the plethora of knowledge you have access too. the learning curve for this game is actually extremely low since all that info is out there. the only thing newer players should be mostly concerned about is execution. the tricks of the trade are already there for you.
now i can see how someone could benefit more if they knew how to play with sentinel, when facing one, but i dont know, i think the truth of the matter is, people just dont get it quick enough, and or they’re lazy. so they think what they need to do to succeed is the way, and it really isnt. i dont mean that in any disrespect, and im not speaking to anyone here specifically. i think by default over the years, players will have dabbled through the cast and learned how to play a lot of characters. especially since marvel is so old, but really, you have the info out there. i mean, if you take 2 hours out of your time to watch how players with lower tier teams face off against top tier teams, you will immediately see how you can deal with the bullshit, and from there its just getting the experience through playing others. hell, people with 5 years experience in marvel can still take a random ass whoppin and get scraped, purely based off of high tier craziness.
my point in the thread was a suggestion i had to try to bring more life into marvel, and to not have a bunch of new players who are coming over from the recent sf4 boom, who are just gonna play cable/sent/commando, and in my personal opinion, add very little to the game. quit because they think theyre good enough because its not exactly hard to get down some basic intermediate shit and pound heads, and then the marvel community loses out a bit. i know a lot of people will be like so the fuck what, let them leave, i been playing marvel since blah blah, but the bigger picture im considering is if marvel can grab more players, and more diverse players as to not scare away anyone who doesnt want to take the time to master the execution necessary to effectively use top tier teams, then thats more pot money at tournies, and if low tier marvel because a tourney main, then thats more opportunity for fun and new shit with marvel (and money) ,and with all these new games being dropped, maybe a possible marvel 3. we all know we want a marvel 3. why not.
im not saying shame on your for playing msp. ha ha. its all good. sometimes you need to face off against some damn msp, but overall i personally would like to see less new top 8 team players, and more diversity from this new release, and really i can say that although a lot of them are scrubbing out, people are playing pretty diverse teams. i see a lot of people trying to use like sentinel as theyre backup just in case their low tiers get scraped, and they still get scraped with sent. thats always funny. anyways. word