I can't control it! - The Phoenix Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1921

Maybe it has something to do with Dark Phoenix’s constant life loss? I must admit I always thought their damage receiving was the same. I also thought it really didn’t matter that much because usually one solid combo meant death for either of them. :lol:

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

Did you test the damage while DPh was in X-factor? Maybe I’ll do it later.

Now that I think about it… I wonder if because DPh seemingly takes more damage, if Healing Field affects them both differently. Hmmmmmm…

Off to the lab!

1922

Yes, I tested it with both X-Factor and Healing Sphere on. She just takes more damage from throws and grab specials it seems.

I uploaded a vid I took of it last night when I saw it.
[media=youtube]jKRFrfkDF08[/media]

Description has the damage log, but view on HQ to see the numbers yourself =)

The vid isn’t of all the stuff I tested, it doesn’t have healing sphere on, just X-Factor

Here’s a couple more I just looked at
Amaterasu’s counter 180,000 vs. 150,000
Wesker’s counter 120,000 vs. 120,000
Wesker’s counter hyper 300,000 vs. 250,000 (interesting…)
Taskmaster’s counter 120,000 vs. 100,000
Taskmaster’s counter hyper 300,000 vs. 250,000
Haggar’s H.command grab 264,000 vs 220,000
Haggar’s hyper grab 540,000 vs 450,000

1923

Anybody here getting tired of the Phoenix hate? It’s really gone up for me this week online… Are we the new Sentinel?

1924

Yeah, but you also said Dromammu’s level 3. His level 3 isn’t a grab.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

It’s just a plain old hit you can block.

1925

I was considering Dorm’s Level 3 to be a sort of blockable grab (like Hulk’s or Jin’s in the previous games), but maybe this may be something that level 3s do more damage to her as well as grabs? Maybe cinematic attacks? Yes, most certainly lab time.

Final Justice (L3 cinematic) does increased damage
Elemental rage (L1 cinematic) does increased damage
Genmu Zero (L3 standard) does normal damage
Maximum Spider (L1 cinematic) does increased damage
Crawler Assault (L1 standard) does normal damage
Ultimate Web throw (L1 cinematic) does increased damage
Bionic Maneuvers (L1 cinematic) does increased damage
Bionic Lancer (L1 standard) does normal damage

And all throws tilt the camera a bit as well, are these considered to be cinematic? She seems to take more damage from anything that changes the camera angle!

I wonder if this is a strange extra dimension to the DHC trick?

1926

re: Invincible Swordsman

I only tried it once, but I tried to do that hide n seek setup using flight mode and IIRC the screen focused on Phoenix once flight was activated, so I never bothered with it again. Will mess with it again I guess o.o

Clockw***0***rk

1927

one thing I have noted is that phoenix’s down H is extremely good against characters that are coming in from a snap back or a killed character it’s beat out sentinel’s jump S

1928

Yeah, you’re definitely on to something. Like you said, Dorm’s Level 3 kills DPh with one shot. But normal Jean survives.

I just tested this with Wesker. His Level 3 (done raw) does the normal 450,000 vs Jean.
It does 536,00 (raw) vs DPh.
Rhino’s Charge does the normal 250,000 vs Jean
Does 300,000 vs DPh.
Mustang Kick does 120,000 vs Jean
140,000 vs DPh.

Everything else is the same. I haven’t tested this with her HF on yet.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

With Chun Li, her level 3 does 410,00 vs Jean (not enough to kill her raw)
Level 3 vs DPh kills her (470,000 damage).

1929

Sonofabitch you’re right. I really thought I had something. But you’re right. No matter how fast I do flight>teleport the camera shifts. You can throw two fireball off-screen and do air normals up there… you can even get behind an enemy by using :f::h: and then dropping with :d::h: and moving around off screen. But as soon as I go to Flight, the camera focuses on me. Awww man…

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

I thought the screen wouldn’t track in vs mode.

Well… at least you can cover your teleflight glitch with two air fireballs. I guess that’s something. :wasted:

1930

Ok, so I tested the crazy DHC trick damage that DPh seems to take and put her on HF and a funny thing happened that I sure as heck didn’t notice before now.

When Dark Phoenix has HF on and you get hit with a Level 3… somewhere in the middle of getting hit by that Level 3 your Healing Field will turn itself off! Thus you will receive the entire brunt of the Level 3 damage. Because of this and the extra damage she takes as DPh, I think…

She can’t survive any physcial hitting Level 3s… whether HF is on or not. :wtf:

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

Ok it doesn’t turn off vs Jill after she activates Mad Beast and hits you.

It does turn off if you’re hit with Taskmaster’s counter hyper (which is NOT a Level 3). But at least she survives it if she has full life. The damage is higher than vs Jean though. Vs Jean it’s 250,000. Vs DPh Aegis Counter does 300,000… and apparently turns off DPh’s Healing Field.

Fucking crap. I’m gonna do more testing.

1931

Vs Ryu
Shinkuu Hadoken - HF stays on
Super Tatsu - HF stays on
Level 3 - HF turns off. It also kills DPh raw because the damage goes from 380,000 to 456,000

vs Wolverine
Super Berserker Barrage - HF stays on
Fatal Claw - HF stays on
Weapon X - HF turns off. Killed DPh and Jean raw anyway. But just for shits and giggles the damage jumps from 440,000 to 526,000

Superskrull
Inferno - HF stays on
Skrull Torch - HF stays on
Death Penalty - HF turns off. Killed DPh and Jean anyway. Damage jumps from 450,000 to 528,000

Akuma
All versions of Superfireball - HF stays on
Dragon punch super - HF stays on
Raging Demon - HF turns off. Killed both of them anyway. Damage jumps from 465,000 to 558,000

C. Viper
Emergency Combination - HF stays on
Burst Time - HF stays on
Full Throttle - HF turns off. Killed them both. Damage jumps from 430,000 to 506,000

Trish
Round Harvest - HF stays on
Maximum Voltage - HF stays on
Duet Pain - HF turns off. Jean stays alive if hit raw. DPh dies. Damage jumps from 400,000 to 472,000

Dante
Million Dollars - HF stays on
Devil Must Die - HF shuts off but gives the illusion that it may stay on for the first few hits. Kills them both raw. Damage from 440,000to 518,000

Amaterasu
Okami Shuffle - HF stays on
Divine Instrument - HF turns off. Jean survives it if she has full life and gets hit raw. DPh dies. Damage goes from 400,000 to 475,000

Spencer
Bionic Maneuvers - HF stays on. But damage jumps from 304,500 to 351,400
Bionic Arm - HF stays on. Damage stays the same.

Morrigan
Finishing Shower - HF stays on.
Shadow Servant - HF stays on.
Darkness Illusion - HF turns off. Jean survives it raw. DPh kicks the bucket. Damage jumps from 400,000 to 481,000

Hsien Ko
Tenrai Ha - HF stays on. Damage stays the same
Rimoukon - HF stays on. Damage stays the same.

Felicia
Dancing Flash -HF stays on
Help Me! - HF turns off. Jean survives it raw. DPh dies. Damage goes from 400,000 to 480,000

Arthur
Goddess Bracelets - HF stays on
Save the Princess - Hf stays. Jean survives raw. DPh survives raw. Damage does not change.

Haggar
Rapid Fire Fist - HF stays on
Body Splash - HF stays on.
FHB - HF turns off. Jean and DPh die. Damage jumps from 450,000 to 540,000

Hulk
Gamma Tsunami - HF stays on.
Gamma Crush - HF stays on
Gamma Quake - HF stays on
The damage stays the same for all those hypers. Doesn’t matter if Jean or DPh. Also, if killed as Jean with HF on, you turn into DPh with Hf still on (you have to have 5 bars of course)

Shulk
Emerald Cannon - stays on
Trash man - stays on
Road Rage - turns off. Jean survives raw. DPh dies. Damage goes from 400,000 to 480,000

Zero
Damage stays the same for both hypers. Hf doesn’t turn off either.

Chris
Damage stays the same for all hypers and HF doesn’t turn off.

Doom
Only Doom’s Time changes. Kills either Jean or DPh. Hf turns off on both. Damage jumps from 440,00 to 528,000

Sentinel
Nothing changes.

Deadpool
4th Wall - Kills DPh. Jean survives. HF gets turned off either way. Damage goes from 400,000 to 480,000

Spidey
Crawler Assault - HF stays on
Maximum Spider - turns HF off. Jean and DPh survive both raw. Damage jumps from 271,000 to 315,900
UWT - HF stays on. damage jumps from 300,000 to 360,000. Jean and DPh survive both raw.

Iron Man
Iron Avenger - Hf turns off. Jean and DPh both die. Damage jumps from 440,000 to 500,000.

Storm
Elemental Rage - Hf stays on. Jean and DPh survive raw with full life. Damage goes from 266,000 to 314,300

Magneto
Gravity Squeeze - HF turns off. Jean survives naked. DPh does not. Damage goes from 400,000 to 476,000

Shuma Gorath
Chaos Dimension - HF turns off. Jean and DPh survive naked. Damage jumps from 350,000 to 420,000

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

It really does seem like most of the hypers that up the damage are the same ones that are integral for the DHC trick.

1932

I suppose the next step will be figuring out the why of this? Great work with the extra digging bro =)

1933

Oh yeah. I forgot to do Wesker, Thor, and Phoenix (probably because they’re my main Phoenix team).

Wesker
Rhino’s Charge - HF stays on. Damage goes up from 250,000 on Phoenix to 300,000 on DPh
Maximum Wesker - HF stays on. Damage doesn’t seem to go up but Maximum Wesker’s damage varies.
Lost in Nightmares - HF turns off. Jean & DPh both die. Damage goes up from 450,000 to 536,000

Thor
Mighty Punish - HF stays on. Damage goes up from 310,000 on Jean to 372,000 on DPh
Mighty Tornado - HF stays on. Damage stays the same.
Mighty Thunder - HF stays on. Damage stays the same.

Phoenix
Phoenix Inferno - HF stays on. Damage stays the same.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

I wonder if this is intentional/unintentional. It’s INCREDIBLY ironic that many of the moves that have to do with the DHC trick/glitch not only deal more damage to DPh but also shut off her Healing Factor.

And if they “fix” the DHC trick/glitch… would they “fix” it in regards to DPh?

1934

I wanted to see how this played out in combos. The hypers deal damage based off their D.Ph scaling, with respect to normal combo damage scaling rules. I was especially interested in seeing some DHC trick action with her, but it appears as if there’s nothing going on there.

Vs. Phoenix/Standard damage model
SMHS: 217,500
Elemental Rage: 266,900
Front throw + ER: 307,300 (ER deals 227,300 after scaling, about 85% of its normal damage)
SMHS + ER: 457,200 (ER deals 239,700 after scaling, about 90% of its normal damage)
Above + DHC Sogenmu SMM M.Sentsuizan: 649,800 (done against Thor because normal Phoenix bursts the combo. Canceled after hit #18 at 387,900 damage. Zero’s part adds 261,900)

Vs. Dark Phoenix
SMHS: 217,500
Elemental Rage: 314,300 (120% of normal damage)
Front throw + ER: 362,800 (deals 118% more than vs normal Phoenix. The throw is 120% and ER is scaled to about 85% of its D.Ph damage.)
SMHS + ER: 499,100 (deals 109% more than vs normal Phoenix. The air combo does equal damage and ER is scaled to about 90% of its D.Ph damage)
Above + DHC Sognemu SMM M.Sentsuizan: 677,900 (deals 104% more than vs Thor. Canceled after hit #18 at 415,900 damage. Zero’s part adds 262,000 damage)

Zero’s part actually does 100 less (??) damage against theoretical Standard Phoenix in the combo. 262,000 is the expected value as that’s the amount it’ll do if you start a sogenmu combo like that o_o

Does the game “recognize” DHC trick and start to try and scale combos that stem from it quicker? Does D.Ph possibly go unchecked on this and just eats post DHC trick combos at standard value?

1935

Im having trouble with something…

How do you OTG with an air fireball?? I know that you do it with MP, but I dont understand how you jump back and throw it out and then the fireball lands right behind them as they stand up from the corner…

1936

you do the down forward, then press up and then medium or light attack. You have to do it slowly, timing is a little hard.

1937

Isn’t the reason DP is taking more damage that normal phoenix during cinematics / grabs is because her health is constantly burning down? Or does that stop when hit with a cinematic super?

1938

I guess when there are actual numbers that’s what the damage display reads and not someone eyeballing the difference, if that’s correct she loses even more health due health drain too…

1939

The main crutch of the testing was using X-Factor to stop her lifedrain.

Magneto with 3 meters is probably the hardest counter to Dark Phoenix out there because of this info.

Gravity Squeeze outright kills her at max health and hits the entire screen, so once people start paying attention to this she’s gonna have to respect that potential.

1940

The extra damage Dark Phoenix takes has been known for weeks. I didn’t know about Healing Field turning itself off (though I did know about being in X-Factor not negating the extra damage or allowing Dark Phoenix to survive those level 3s), but otherwise your research is redundant.

http://shoryuken.com/f340/bugs-glitches-thread-265928/index6.html#post10439669

The mechanic is simply that cinematic moves (as well as anything that is even vaguely a throw, though throws and cinematics may use the same internal mechanics) do extra damage to Dark Phoenix. My hypothesis is that any hit that is internal to the cinematic is doing an extra 20% damage but that the amount of damage added to many level 3 hypers is very hard to predict because of the way they go back and forth. It’s true that some of these cinematic moves are also involved in the DHC glitch, but it’s not a really direct tie since many moves that aren’t useful for the DHC glitch do still do extra damage to Dark Phoenix.

I really don’t understand why the research here got linked on the front page when I posted it weeks ago in a more obvious place and no one seemed to care…