Oops I think it might be the other way around then. Sorry (when I wrote the post I was really fatigued and tired). But like lets say they get your phoenix in a combo and make her turn dark and get knocked back. After the knockback if you teleport then Xfactor you can combo then after the xfactor.
Air down+H is safe on block, correct? And assuming so (bible claims it’s +9), would that mean H teleport into d+H is a generally safe way to get in and attack? (All things considered of course, like that they don’t do some invincible super or something).
Once she goes dark and is in xf, I just wanna learn how to prove that she’s broken.
Also, any tips for the phx mirror? Like, is it better to go dark first or second? And once were both dark, it almost seems like a coin flip who gets the hit. If I’m becoming an official ‘phoenix player,’ the mirror is the thing I’m looking forward to the least lol
I couldn’t get that to work, but I almost could, so that makes more sense. I will keep practicing.
Teleport H isn’t safe, though, and d.H has a large startup.
It’s best to go dark second so the explosion can give you frame advantage. It’s best to go dark first so you have meter to spend when your opponent goes dark. Ye dig?
Run to the corner and keep putting Tk Trap L (if it hits super) and watch for a random super and block it then super then victory.
I have been punished too many times for Teleport H then Burn Out Beak(d.H). (maybe because my opponents were smart or cause I was being predictable. probably a mix of both lol) I know it has a frame advantage but it’s punishable if you don’t know when to use it. Slides seem to be a big counter to this way of getting in. I prefer to use her Flare Sword (f.H) into S if the opponent is on the ground or into Burn Out beak if their airborne. Her Flare Sword is one of her best ways of getting in because of the distance it goes. Same thing goes for her slide (c.M) . I think both can be cancelled into teleports if the opponent baits it and tries to punish, THEN teleport H and Burn Out Beak would be a good way of getting in.
Wondering if phoenix can get a better TAC infinite using this tech. PLease all the tech monsters I want to see if someone can come up w/ something using this tech for phoenix
[media=youtube]z9CdMofaoz4[/media]
@mason
and anyone else lol
in phoenix mirrors… the one who usually teleport H second wins… because there is a delay in what she can do even in xfactor lvl 3… also don’t be the one to pop xfactor out of fear of losing… it will just mess you up… don’t get caught doing anything in the air… u will lose, s.H is your best friend. tk overdrive will beat mashing L, i usually do H version during teleporting opponents, so either i get tk overdrive effectively hitting them, or teleport if they decide to cross me up. because although her recovery is stupid fast in xfactor, she can still be hit… I don’t think that burnout beak is an overhead so mix it up with j.S or try to crossup with a delayed j.H which i find to be very ambiguous.
[s]Hey guys, Sjohnst2 from the Magneto boards found a way to plink dash cancel HGrav without getting Tempest (usually qcb + H~M gives Tempest when you have meter).
He discusses the tech here: The Ultimate Magnus Thread. The godlike stuff
It may not seem Phx-related, but the tech is actually an exploitation of a general game mechanic, something that’s not just limited to Magneto. The input method that Sjohn developed allows a character to plink dash cancel out of an air special’s startup frames without getting the air super that shares the same motion as the air special (assuming the character can already dash cancel out of an air special’s startup, which is something Phx can do).
This essentially means that Phx can kara cancel her air fireball into dash without getting air super. This leads to Phx being able to turnaround glitch now. It doesn’t add too much utility, since Phx’s air H already hits a large enough area behind her, but it may be useful in certain situations. For example, when you fly xx plink to escape pressure then you cross over the opponent, you can turnaround glitch and come down with air S for a longer, safer poke than air H.
The input method itself is pretty tricky. I don’t know if this will be practical for Phx. But I’m just putting this out there, for all the actual Phx mains who know better than me. Maybe you’ll be able to make better use of this.[/s]
EDIT: she can’t turnaround
seems interesting. Would be cool if someone could make a video to better explain this w/ phoenix.
does anyone have much experience picking tk trap assist? thoughts on it vs the other two?
Only time I’ve really used it is for X-23 to relaunch in the corner.
It’s pretty damn slow, so it’s not really good for a combo extender, but it can be useful if you can’t really reach the top right hand corner of the screen.
Not too bad for incoming mixups with a teleport character, especially if she’s already dark.
well i think the most optimal time to call her assist would be to when they’re at the top corner of the screen if i was just doing it
i was more mainly thinking i could use it for setting up resets with my point chars because she’s gone by the time they’d be in the situation. its not like im really calling her other assists that much, and sure, they’re combo extenders but im picking a suboptimal team atm (strider/mag/phx) so strider needs to hit resets when i’m not doing a tac infinite
if phoenix can airdash cancel the startup of her air specials ( i didn’t know this because the general rule that i figured was that the char needed to be able to airdash cancel their air normals on hit/block) you should be able to do it with an air special that doesn’t lead to an air super. so maybe air teleport.
–
how do i play this char guys.
I like overdrive better as an assist. Also off an knockdown you can call overdrive and get an Oki mixup w/ the assist. Also phoenix follows the character I’d say 9/10 on their roll when you call tk overdrive on their wakeup.
W/ strider during a blocked tk overdrive you can probably go for some kind of instant overhead setup or teleport mixup w/ the assist.
I’d probably ask @Marvelo and see if he has any better idea’s for potential resets w/ her different assists whether they be via knockdown, oki, or air resets etc…
Sjohn didn’t develop plink dashing in marvel. There’s nothing really unique about his method; it’s been sound advice, ever since Chris Schmidt has stood by it, that plinking with Button~2Buttons is the better form of plink dashing in marvel, because it’s “plink” dashing in marvel doesn’t really require plinking at all, it’s just dash cancelling the normal(which has a more than 1 frame leeway, unlike plinking, which Button~1Button requires to be read as a dash).
It’d be interesting, but counting on the last ~1-3 frames of the input buffer to avoid a hyper to do a turnaround glitch for a safer poke wouldn’t even be close to match practical. You’d have to do it with a special that didn’t risk air phoenix rage. Is she able to dash cancel her air teleport?
Anyways, I did a lot of lab work today about input buffers, to address the issue of players getting accidental Healing Fields and Hawkeye Level 3s when they want Phoenix Rage and Kiss of Fire. Not sure how known or understood this is, but I’ll share my findings anyway.
Healing Field has more priority than Phoenix Rage. If you do 214236AtkAtk fast enough, you’ll get Healing Field, not Phoenix Rage, even if the motion is 100% correct.
During HyperFreeze, at the startup of a hyper, the input buffer is essentially extended, from before the hyper freeze, all the way to the end of the hyper freeze.
What this means is, if you do 214L/M/H(TK Trap), any time during or immediately before HyperFreeze, you will not be able to do Phoenix Rage; the 214 motion will still be in the buffer, and any attempt to do phoenix rage and press multiple attack buttons will override it with the higher-priority Healing Field. Even if you don’t press the button for the trap, the motion is still there.
Any combination of 2, followed by 1, followed by 4, in the input buffer, will essentially prevent you from doing Phoenix Rage. I wouldn’t really call this a glitch, personally, as it’s just the input buffer working as intended, and choosing one of two options that you’ve met the input requirement for based on priority. People like Viscant and Chris G have attributed this to some kind of hard to quantify bug, but all the testing I’ve done has produced straight forward results on the issue(except for a minor hiccup that doesn’t affect hypers at all, but I digress).
tl - dr ; When you get healing field instead of phoenix rage, it’s because healing field has more priority, and you input 214 during or immediately before the hyperfreeze. Try to be more careful with traps, and 214 motions in general,as they leave you vulnerable to yolo hypers.
Let me know if this was already, like, generally understood or just regarded as buggy marvel mystique. :]
[s]No man, I meant Sjohn found a way to plink dash out of HGrav without getting Tempest, not plink dashing in general. His method isn’t H~L+M. His method is qcb, H, wait out the special cancelling window, ~L+M.
There’s been some discussion on that very thread that I linked: one idea from Slippaz (another poster from the Mag boards) was to delay the H~L+M a bit after inputting the qcb. I’ve played around with it in training mode. The window isn’t as tight as it seemed on paper when I delayed the H~L+M. With a little practice, I think I can get it consistently, but this is entirely opinion; at this point I can’t really say if it’s practical or not, I need some more results.
EDIT: Anyway, if you don’t think it’s practical, I’ll take your word for it. I don’t play Phx; I wouldn’t know any better. I just want to get this tech out in the open, just in case someone gets ideas off of this.[/s]
EDIT: she can’t turnaround
The “secret motion” Sjohn has been using… H~L+M… is the exact same method of plink dashing that people like Schmidt popularized, and have been using for a long time. The only difference is that Sjohn is doing it towards the end of the input buffer, so that the SAME motion everyone has been doing, and should be doing, specifically BECAUSE it has more leeway, to plink dash with anyone anywhere… had a higher chance of avoiding the tempest.
It’s still a 1-3 frame window for error, tops, and it still gets you a massively punishable hyper if you mess it up, which makes it a high risk, low reward scenario. Add to that how delayed it will be(~12 frames for human reaction time+console delay, ~20 frames for waiting until the end of the input buffer), and you can safely say it’s not even practical for Magneto, nevermind Phoenix. Sorry. I wouldn’t count on it ever being a useful piece of tech for Magneto unless he has 0 bars.
[s]Sjohn didn’t develop H~L+M, you’re totally right. I’m not saying that he did, chill out. What I’m saying is that he’s the one who found that you can use that to plink dash out of HGrav and still avoid the Tempest. I can’t be sure that he’s the first one to look into it but I’m pretty sure he’s the first one to post about it. He tested if it’s possible to run out the special cancellable window after the qcb before you input the H~L+M, and it turned out that it IS possible. I haven’t seen anyone look into this before, it was all just theory before, so I credited Sjohn with finding that it is possible to run the special cancellable window out before inputting H~L+M, not finding H~L+M itself. This discovery is what I wanted to share, not the discovery of being able to do H~L+M.
Anyway, maybe you should try messing with it first. I’ve pulled it off with Magneto in a match. My execution of the tech is still shaky, but I think it’s possible to be consistent with it. On paper, it seems hard, but the timing is consistent; all you have to do is learn the timing. You’re right, with Phx, the reward of getting turnaround glitch doesn’t outweigh the risk, so there probably isn’t much point to using this tech with Phx, unless someone can find other applications. With Magneto, though, the reward is guard cancel into airdash. I think it has potential for Magneto, but that’s for a different thread.[/s]
EDIT: she can’t turnaround
Oh, misunderstood you, then. :]
It’s possible to plink out of grav and avoid tempest with just H~M, or something similar, though. H~L+M just makes it a little easier. I still don’t think it’s a good idea to attempt it in a match, based on risk vs reward and human error margins, but that is definitely a matter of opinion for another thread, I think. :]
I just came to shed some light on people getting accidental Healing Fields if they weren’t 100% clear on the causes and all that ^^
Hey guys, I just wanted some opinions on my quick overview of Phoenix’s normals. I will be making a tutorial for her soon and normals will take a part in what I’m going to present. I will try my best to give examples of my analysis of her normals in visual form. So it would be nice to get an opinion on what’s spot on, incorrect, too much info, or not enough info. If anything this could still be here as a nice write up for beginners.
My analysis of Phoenix’s bomb normals:
c.L
-true low
-decent range
-scales damage
-one of the fastest lows in the game (4 frames)
-mashable on whiff, hit, and block
-confirmable into s.L, s.M, s.H, c.L, c.M, S, and c.H(only through mashing it atleast twice)
-makes many conversions off of many things possible
-safe on block and hit
c.M
-slide with good range
-very low profile
-can dodge many projectiles and normal attacks
-confirmable into Flare Sword, s.H, c.H, and S
-confirmable into Tk Overdrive L, M, H and Tk Shot L
-unsafe on block and hit
c.H
-makes hurtbox smaller
-can anti air dash in attempts(not advised)
-soft knockdown on hit
- safe on block
-confirmable into Flare Sword and S
-confirmable into Tk Overdrive L, M, H and Tk Shot L
s.L
-fast jab
-mashable on whiff, hit, and block
-decent hitbox
-whiffs on most crouching characters(unless point blank)
-can act as an AA but is very poor and can only be confirmed into itself, s.M, or S
-can be confirmed into all ground normals(must be hit twice to confirm into c.H)
s.M
-fast ground normal
-hits crouchers
-good range
-can be confirmed into c.M, s.H, c.H, and Flare Sword
s.H
-fast ground normal
-whiffs on crouchers or small standing characters - has good range
- good zoning poke
- cannot be confirmed into normals from far but can be confirmed into TK Overdrive L & H
- great anti-air
-can be confirmed into c.L, c.H, and Flare Sword when in range
S - fast launcher
- great hitbox
- good anti-air
- safe on block and hit
- 20 frame recovery but rolls backs
- protected hurtbox
a.L - upward hitting hitbox
- instant overhead (standing and normal hurtboxes only)
- can be confirmed into a.L, a.M, a.H, and a.S
- starts air resets
- can be cancelled into divekick for pressure
- very low hitting dash in (because of its upward hitbox)
a.M - horizontal hitbox
- can be confirmed intom a.M, a.H, and a.S
- can start air resets
- stabilizes combos
- scales combo
- low hitting dash in
a.H - very fast (8 frames)
- pizza cutter (great hitbox)
- instant overhead (standing and normal hurtboxes only)
- great crossup
- great meaty
- OS when used as dash in
- adds damage to combos
a.S - amazing hitbox
- hits behind Phoenix in certain situations
- great range
- great hitstun and blockstun
- allows for many combo possibilities because of its great range and speed
- fast (10 frames)
Flare Sword - command normal with great range (travels about 1/3 away from fullscreen)
- great anti-air
- adds damage to combos
- makes some conversions possible when mixed with a dash on the ground
- great block and hit stun
- possible in air
- unsafe on ground by -6 but safe in air by +9 (slow recovery on ground by 24 frames and fast recovery in air by 9 frames)
- special cancellable
Prominence Heel - flashy overhead
- stationary animation (no momentum or movement)
- good range
- special cancellable
- average speed (22 frames)
- minus 1 on block
- can anti-air
Burnout Beak - downwards going divekick
- average speed (15 frames)
- groundbounce property
- integral part of bnbs
- integral in super jump conversions
- fast recovery (7 frames)
- very safe on block (+9)
- very small hitbox
- special cancellable
I’ll look this over when I get some more rest. Looks really good though. I’d love to see this in video form.