What do you think the best use of Gen super moves? pls give me your thoughts on them
Hands;
Gekiro;
Roll;
Oga;
When is the time to use them or not. pls help me out guys
You mean EX? I’ll just post my own opinion and am open for discussion on how to use his moves more effectively.
EX Hands is strictly for combos or to frame trap further on block, but IMO the practicality of frame trap is diminished because Gen loses his Super. I use it only when I want a hard knockdown that bad or to link to U2. I use it once in 4~5 matches I guess.
EX Gekiro is like SRK without FADC. I do not use it much as a wake-up reversal, but rather after I block a jab. I also use it when I see someone neutral jump on my wake-up. It is Gen’s best move to kill time when he is turtling. I rarely use it offline tho, like once or twice a whole match (2~3 rounds) unless I really feel like doing it.
EX Roll is the move I use when Gen either 1. is knocked down and I know that my opponent is doing a walk forward frame trap or a throw after making me block the fireball or 2. is turtling down-back style against someone with a fireball waiting for the time out. I never use EX Roll for focus crumple combo, and I only use LP distance to poke them. To me this move is nearly non-existant.
EX Oga is the one I use when I know they will chip me out with a meaty fireball on my wake-up from more than half screen.
That’s it I guess. I rarely use any EX move and instead uses meter on FADC and Super. On wake-up defense I prefer blocking or focus backdashing to EX Gekiro.
Thanks but I meant all versions of the moves. I fear my Gen ability now is at 20% of his whole potential, I want to know what the moves are for and when to do them safely.
Is the move really that bad, I don’t know but I sense that this move may be a hidden gem for Gen, does the ex version have hit/throw invincibilty?
Does gen have any viable chiping move? his ultra does no chip except U2. mantis super does a little, hands chip is pitiable, maybe the roll?
Been using Lk gekiro during blocking and on wake up and getting bodied for it even by AI, seems it has no invinicibility anymore,
Is Crane sHK a viable anti air for jumpins outside the cHK range?
Ah sorry. I assumed “super” as “EX”. Will be taking quite a while for my next post.
ok, waiting with HUGE anticipation. sometimes playing Gen is an effort in frustration for me lol!
His EX Roll has projectile invincibility, and no hit/throw invincibility.
I’m not going to analyze the move itself fully but will rather state when I will try to use each version of the move. It may not be the best use of the moves.
= Hands =
- I do not use the LP version as it is terrible (would’ve been much better if they were as fast as MP or HP version since each hit has the least pushback of the three excluding EX).
- HP version has a quick start-up, and I will sometimes use it as a reversal to interrupt opponents’ strings. Aside from the fact that it will reset the distance via MK hands, it also has a relatively long range for such a fast start-up, so it can punish things many other moves cannot.
- MP version has a slightly slower start-up, so I don’t use this as an interrupt, but it also has less pushback than HP hands. For match-ups like Boxer, the distance after HP version of hands is actually better for Boxer than it is for Gen, and using MP version to make the distance closer will put Gen in a better position compared to the former. Unless I want to Super or FADC him, I will try to cancel my normals into MP hands against Rogs.
- I use EX hands to extend my combos, most of the time to link into kara Mantis U2.
= Gekiro =
- LK Gekiro is the move I use as a combo, a reversal against sloppy blockstrings, and against the obvious throws. It can be used as a long-range AA, but it is a guess as it depends on whether the opponent sticks out a normal or not. While its start-up got faster to 5f in Super, its invincibility was reduced to 3f full invincibility and 4f throw invincibility, so you can still get hit out at the 4th start-up frame.
- I don’t use MK Gekiro I’m afraid. It is hard to find a situation where I would rather use this move than some other options.
- HK Gekiro is the move I use as an AA against Seths, period. In certain ranges, it will trade with/beat all of his air moves including his dive kick, and the trade is in your favour. Of course, I also use this move for a hard knockdown against those whom TC2 xx HK Gekiro will connect.
- EX Gekiro is the move I use against really tight blockstrings, usually after blocking a j.MK to interrupt before a crouching short/jab or after blocking one jab. It is, like I said, useful against someone who neutral jumps on your wake-up. I also use it like a delayed SRK. If you do it slow, it is really frustrating to the opponent and it will eat up a lot of time, helping you towards a time out victory if you have the lead.
= Roll =
- LP Roll is the move I like to use as a raw poke in a certain distance. Gen can be really strong against some characters when he is in down-back position, and this is the only move that is relatively safe and advances him forward.
- I don’t use MP Roll :(. I want to use it as a mid-range poke, but it is slow enough for someone to react and neutral jump
- Usually what I cancel to after crane cr.MP and will be doing it until someone SRKs in between the string on non-CH hit. It deals the same chip damage as EX Oga IIRC, and doing FADCs will make the opponents hesitant for punish after blocking it.
- EX Roll is the move I use when Gen either 1. is knocked down and I know that my opponent is doing a walk forward frame trap or a throw after making me block the fireball or 2. is turtling down-back style against someone with a fireball waiting for the time out. I never use EX Roll for focus crumple combo, and I only use LP distance to poke them. To me this move is nearly non-existant, the reason being that it requires charge time of 60f and the opponent will have to stay in range to punish on reaction. MP and HP distance version of EX rolls are too slow to punish fireballs on reaction. It is still -3 on block, which really limits this move. It can, however, deal a huge stun for HP distance version of the move (160 damage, 250 stun).
= Oga =
- IMO Oga is a move that is better online, but is worse offline & gets worse against better opponents, except for the cross-up dive kick setups. 95% of the time I use it as a cross-up setup, and the other 5% of the time I use it as a mindfuck tool where I will either: 1. Go full screen to hit them below their waists, being relatively safe, or 2. Do not go full screen to bait out their SRK or AA normals where I can either punish or simply proceed to gain meter.
- EX Oga can be useful against Guile who expects you to jump and does an air throw in reaction to the jump. EX Oga goes through his fireball and his air throw and proceeds to hit him on the other side. I’m yet to use this move in other situations unless I really want to force myself in with EX Oga -> EX Gekiro, which is a desparate yet dumb move IMHO.
Crane st.HK is terrible as an AA. Its hitbox is really bad + it has little active frames. It will lose straight to moves like shoto’s j.HP or Claw’s jump-ins, and you will get hit grounded. On trade you can do a crane Super tho, so it might be something to think about against characters with a dive kick with a height restriction.
wow thanks for the breakdown. THANKS
my analysis won’t be as deep as street11’s, but I’ll tell you my opinion anyway:
-
Hyakurenko
I only use the hp one, after pokes (cr.mp/st.mk) or sometimes to interrupt the opponent’s string. Ex Hyakurenko…. I think I almost never use it, except for situations where I really need that extra damage and I want to play it safe. -
Gekiro
Probably the move I abuse. lk one is usually my finisher in combos, of course and its wide horizontal hitbox makes it useful to punish some wiffed moves. Sometimes I uses it after a oga that flies above the opponent. If I land in a good spot, I wiff a lk gekiro, many times it catches the opponent while he tries to punish me…. and otherwise I’m generally too far away to be punished for the gekiro.
Mk gekiro…. I’ve to admit I don’t know when to use it and I don’t use it. Hk gekiro against some characters after TC2 or some silly vertical jump in.
Ex gekiro is a good card in most situations, anti-air, wake-up, etc. -
Jyasen
I sometimes wiff the lp one, otherwise I use the hp jyasen in combos. Ah, jyasen is good also to punish things like Akuma’s jump fireball. You roooooll under the incoming fireball and hit him as soon as he lands.
The Ex Jyasen is a move I adore, because you can find tricky uses for it. The short one is very good on react against fireball characters who shoot you from short distance…. I love it especially for characters like Guile or Rose, when they shoot and then walk towards you (especially Rose with its Ultra 2 activated). The long one instead if I need to roll out of a dangerous jump in on wake up. I never use the medium Ex jyasen though…. -
Oga
The unblockables somebody found out
then I use the short one to build meter if the opponent turtles. I often use the mk straight one after a knockdown, when the opponent is cornered. It’s rather safe and it often baits out a reaction you can punish. Ceiling drop is my usual move to chip the final pixels of life out after a knockdown. No other uses.
Ex oga instead…. I use it quite frequently in some match-ups like Akuma (he cannot jump fireball anymore at all), Gouken, Ryu, Sagat…. all fireball characters. You fly on the opposite wall and hit them from behind if they attack you from distance. You CANNOT do it from full screen, otherwise they’ll recover on time. Opposite wall, straight Ex oga is also a cross-up against all characters after Mantis U2.
then I use the short one to build meter if the opponent turtles. I often use the mk straight one after a knockdown, when the opponent is cornered. It’s rather safe and it often baits out a reaction you can punish. Ceiling drop is my usual move to chip the final pixels of life out after a knockdown. No other uses.Crane st.hk is very bad as AA. I’m instead focussing on Mantis st.mp as (situational) anti-air.
I find myself barely using the Jyasen, lol! tried playing arcade mode in crane stance only and it was so HARD
I can agree here thatI most of the ex moves are not worth delaying super for.
I poke into hands, i combo with lk.gekiro, i AA with mk.gekiro, I combo into jayesen(roll) and i use mk.oga for crossups.
I need to toy with forward throw into hk.oga, and i never use it to chip, always punished for that.
Ex.oga as a reaction to a fireball is the only necessary meter i will use unless i know a setup off of backthrow for it.
Seriously, play honest, save meter, land super, and win. No need for fancy FADC combos, they are not worth the threat of Gens super.
I like using ex hands into sweep for a knockdown, isnt that a good meter use?
If you really need it. Gen has a good okizeme but it’s not its best card. Against some characters it helps a lot (Guile, Dhalsim for example), but with others…I don’t see it as a strategy that can turn the table. As Kahmos said, the point is Gen has TWO of the best supers in the game. So…meter is even more valuable for this reason.
Lets not forget tha EX hands into sweep whiffs on standing Guile. Makes it that much more annoying.
wiffs on Guile, Sakura and Juri. but cHP packs alot of stun
Am I the only one that thinks EX is just better saved for super? (Like almost exclusively?) I use EX Gekiro for a quick AA and rarely on wakeup. But I just think the Super outclasses them all by far, it’s easy to land and leads to potentially fatal resets / ultra. How can Ex Hands > sweep touch that?
To None EX. they all have uses, but Hands and Gekiro are my most used. Oga is just for shenanigans, and Jyasen? I rarely use it when I think I should.
No you are not. Like I stated, I rarely use EX to save meter for FADC / Super. However, I do not go ‘no meter use until Super stocked’ mode to show the opponents that Gen has options even before he has Super (the ones I fight usually try to go crazy on me and kill me before I can have Super, and a rare use of EX or a long FADC combo calms them down a little, allowing me to be more offensive on them.