It is useful, you just don’t want to spam it out., unless your name is Rufus.
Yeah, that’s what I"m getting at. Look at Naruo for example. I think he’s a great example of a high level Evil Ryu. Solid footsies, zoning, and mixes up when the opportunity is there. But he doesn’t always go for it to keep his opponent guessing. It’s not that great, but it’s a valid tool. Not one that should be completely ignored. Or you really are playing a higher damage Ryu with slower normals and less health/stun.
Pretty much. I think the biggest challenge with Evil Ryu is knowing when to play offensive and when to hang back. I still focus on trying to master the perfect mix.
I’d say Naruo is definitely the best.
Why use the dive kick vs. someone that will block it every time?
Well the dive kick would have to be well placed and timed to mix him up, he definitely shouldn’t be predictable with it (just like anybody else).
You guys aren’t understanding me. There’s a way they can block where they will always block correctly, whether you dive kick or cross them up. These are made up numbers, but they’ll explain what I’m talking about. Say a “safe” dive kick hits on frame 42 after you jump. The crossup hits on frame 49. They’ll just block normal till frame 42, then switch to block a crossup before frame 49. There’s no mixup. Only mixup he’d have is a frame trap/throw after, but the dive kick has bad frame advantage on block, so someone could mash out on him.
Now, what he’s doing is ambiguous crossups and fake crossups. They hit on the same frame, whether or not they hit in front or back, forcing his opponent to guess or recognize the setup. This is an actual mixup. J.mk and j.hk also give more frame advantage on block than the dive kick.
Need to remember guys like these are on another level. If you’re using something and hitting people all day with it, but he’s not, there’s a reason. Need to try and figure it out instead of thinking you know something he doesn’t. 9 times out of 10, it’ll be the other way around. I dive kick all day…and it’s hits a ton of people, but I know it’s days are numbered. There are some people that just don’t get hit by it, and when I fight them, I try to do what he’s doing. Vs. them you’re better off with just a normal ryu type vortex.
I got you on the idea that it can always be blocked if time correctly. It can still be used effectively. There’s no reason to just completely ignore a useful tool. Evil Ryu’s Dive kick can be used to confuse people into doing the wrong moves, getting pass fireballs safer, and there’s the fact that he can land 368 off of one meterless. He can mix up the divekick with air tatsu, j mk, j hk, and j lk pressure to keep him guessing. I never said it would hit all day, just that it was useful.
Naruo (who I’d say is the world’s best Evil Ryu) uses the divekick and he hits higher level players with it, frequently (like Banaban’s Cammy who has good anti air options). So I wouldn’t write it off as useless. It’s better to have a divekick than to not have one. Also keep in mind that his divekick has more leniency in the air than Akuma’s jumping dive kick and it beats a few others in an air to air clash. So the move isn’t bad. I don’t think anybody was saying that Naga was bad. It did seem like he tried a bit too hard to get in though. It’s like he took damage he didn’t need to. Not that he didn’t know any better. Maybe he was just having an off day like all players do.
I get what you’re saying. I’ve heard the argument before and I’ve come across players like that myself who can block it correctly most of the time. I just think it’s not a good idea to at least show the threat of it. If everybody was perfect, then nobody would get hit by dive kicks. But that doesn’t stop the Seth’s and Cammy’s of the world from doing it over and over or Naruo from doing it when he was in the Topanga B league. That doesn’t mean that ER players should be doing it whenever they can because Naruo didn’t use it often, but he got some mileage out of it.
And neither of us were trying to say we knew something he didn’t. Even the best players aren’t making the best decisions. And it’s ok to point out flaws. The dive kick argument is not one that I would really hold against him though. I think he should use it sometimes, but I see why he doesn’t. Running into low forwards and fireballs with a lead and the clock winding down is another though as that seemed completely unnecessary to me especially when you can match your opponents character fireball for fireball or even make him come to you by throwing shaku’s from out of jump in range.
E.R.'s folowable dive (i mean, a dive that will allow you to continue the combo when it hits) on wakeup can aways be punished by a lp dp by ryu and e.r., it will to result in a trade on most of the case, if the diver delays it, the dp have a great chance to beat it clean. Its really hard to dodge the lp dp using the dive, it must have been done in a pretty useless way, so a good ryu/e.r. wont be caught by that. Its pretty dangerous to keep spamming it, mainly against someone that knows everything about its functionalities.
btw i havent watched the video yet, I tought it was e.r. vs e.r. . In the past I tought this matchup was heavily in Ryu’s favor but after I discovered how to use the s.mk properly I changed my mind, Im not sure about this matchup right now. E.R.'s s.mk rapes everything Ryu have.
You never want to get predictable with the divekick (at least Evil Ryu’s) because a lot of things can punish it. Just like fireballs or anything else. It is a very useful tool, but not to get too reliant on. If it had the stun of the cannon strike well…
And I’m inclined to think that Ryu is 6-4 against Evil Ryu. Evil Ryu has to open him up or attempt to outzone him. He is good if he gets going, but Ryu’s good defense usually means they’ll trade hits, and hits that trade work in his favor because of his better health.
I realized something watching Naruo, he never seems to use standing mp or mk. Interesting. It seems a lot of high level E. Ryu’s don’t use standing mk. I guess they are good at hit confirming low or something.
Has anybody seen this? (14:20 is the match time)
[media=youtube]kNS-34zgd1k[/media]
I found Naruo’s Evil Ryu to be divine. Everything is so precise.
I remember that one. I also saw him smoke some Seth in Topanga league for 80% or so in a reset to ex axe kick.
How can he go into these MU’s with such confidence? I mean, Evil Ryu doesn’t have the best wake up game, footsies, or fireballs, yet Naruo is so very good with him. Even in MU’s which involve vortex characters.
He’s pretty damn good at all three? Like, there’s only like three truly exceptional wakeup characters in the game (Akuma, Bison, give or take someone like Fei) and Evil is better than most others, he has good footsies and his fireball game is not lacking at all? With the highest damage in the game on your side? Why would you not be confident playing him?
What do you mean by wake up? I’m thinking he means Oki.
E. Ryu’s wake up game is good. He has a 3 frame invulnerable dragon punch, which is indeed better than most. Footsies are ok, but he doesn’t want to be playing them more than needed. Fireballs are good though.
If he meant the best, well then yea, he’s right. Evil Ryu is the best at damage. He has other good traits though, but he isn’t the best or top 5 in wakeup or footsies. His fireballs are very good though.
Best wakeup is undisputed Bison and Akuma, no contest there. But his reversal is way better than most people’s and I wouldn’t forget the teleport. It can’t be used often, but when it gets used it’s all the more unexpected. As with the divekick, better with a handy but situational tool than without one.
Bleh the teleport. It has a few emergency uses. I don’t think most Evil Ryu players would miss it. It has its uses though. Naruo gets good use out of it. I find it good for escaping mixups. Evil Ryu used to always have an Akuma teleport. Don’t know why they did that, but whatever. His divekick is useful seeing as he has tatsu, hop kick, and all of his jumping horizontal kicks can cross up. Definitely not bad there.
Sorry, just to clarify, I mean his options on his knock down recovery IE, a sweep knock down against him, not the options he has on his opponents knock down.
I feel for every DP comes a great risk, especially against characters like Viper, Seth and Akuma. Although, their options on knockdown are better than most.
Is his fireball that strong? I find it weaker than Ryu’s, and it seems to have poor recovery in comparison to Ryu’s.
Did anybody see this match?
[media=youtube]Ee75o3HIHdg[/media]
Sorry if it’s been posted already. 
Well the damage is weaker, but the recovery is the same, he can even do fireball combos that Ryu can’t.
His red fireball has a slower recovery than Gouki’s though.
Dp’s are definitely not to be spammed, but it is a reversal option that most wish they had. Good to have in your belt.