My question to you would be, if someone came to and asked to play at your 100% would you do it or not?
For me, when I step up to the plate, I’m playing to win. Unless I’m trying some stuff out with some new characters or what not.
Oh yeah, I’d do it for sure.
That was a good question, and it got me thinking about how I play harder depending on who I am fighting. I thought about that for a while and decided that I’m not going to do it anymore.
If I go full out all the time, maybe I can start increasing my brain stamina (or something)
Limiting Options
I’m just getting home from a pretty rough day, however I feel the need to write a decent passage that people need to hear. I first want to compliment and commend Kendrick for writing such a nice piece, conditioning an opponent is one of the first major things I learned as a player as well, and can net you phenomenal results. All in all, great break down Ken. Aside from that, I wanted to talk about “Limiting Options.” I felt that it would go hand in hand with Ken’s piece on conditioning…hopefully it won’t be to bad, here it goes!
Limiting an opponents options is a very simple term to grasp, however not always easy to use in actual game play, it takes time to truly value it and know why limiting options can be so powerful. Limiting options is the basic idea of restricting an opponents resources…specifically what they want as a player/character. A quick example is a classic ST Ryu. His main goal is to throw hadouken’s at you as they control a lot of the play field. If your jump to avoid the hado is mistimed, Ryu punishes. Now say that you are using Bison…from afar Ryu is throwing fast hadoken’s, and here you are crouched. It’s pretty apparent that Ryu is throwing them fairly blindly, the answer would be to head stomp. The head stomp is quick enough to hit Ryu on the recovery of his hadouken. Simply put, Bison does have a way around being hado’ed all day against Ryu.
Lets now go a bit further with this however…lets say that the Ryu throws another hado, and Bison reacts in the same exact way, scoring more damage, and safe advantage. This is where Kendrick’s “Conditioning” times in…The Ryu opponent is going to need to think about wether or not he should be throwing these hado’s. As you (Bison) have shown him that you can oficially shut that attack down. You’ve officially limited one of Ryu’s #1 resource, while at the same time conditioned him to think of a different strategy to win.
Now I know that most vet players will probably say that my example wasn’t the best…I’m sorry for not being able to give a better one. All in all, this is the main gist of limiting an opponents options. I’ll try one really quick example here, this one pertains to SF4. You as a player can figure out what to limit when you look at a characters strengths.
Lets look at Abel really quickly…he has a great inside game with mixups and command throws. He’s got a great dash, hits hard, and has buff combos. However he doesn’t have a lot of tools to gain ground other then his roll or axe kick. At the same time, he doesn’t have a very good reversal (the roll and ex command grab). Lastly, he doesn’t have a good anti air, and he can’t play a fair ground game as his pokes are lack luster.
What this tells me, is that he suffers when he’s put on the outside. If I zone Abel out, how does he get his mixups? Or for that matter, how can he even gain distance and get in on me? If I find ways to limit his roll and axe kick, I can potentially stop him from coming in at all times. He doesn’t have a good anti air? If I can rush him down, I’ll do so, just gotta be smart about it. His options to reversal me on my rush down aren’t too strong, so feel free to wreak havoc. Simply put, keep Abel out, limit him from being inside, when you have the advantage press upon it because his reversals and anti airs are weak.
All in all, this is the basic premise of limiting options. By limiting options you officially shut your opponents play style down. They are then challenged to find a new strategy, as their current is no longer working. The tough part, is when YOU don’t have something to fall back on. Say that you are getting shut down based off of your opponent taking away all of YOUR options. Now you are the one who needs to calculate a better play style…this is a horse of a different color, and is VERY important to know, however for a different day.
The ability to read a players habits and goals (what he wants as a player), limiting an opponents options, and conditioning them to second guess themselves…I feel that these are key to strengthen your game. Think of this thread as a whole new way to playing fighters. This goes beyond the analytics and logistics of gaming. It goes beyond “In situation X, I should do Y in order to achieve Z.”
At the end of it all…I hope that this thread will teach players how to win.
playing the opponent vs playing the character
A difference for me between “casual” and tournament play is who I am playing against. I play at my best (or try to) either way, but in general, unless I am in a tournament, I try to stay away from beating the player, and instead try to focus on beating the character.
What I’m trying to do is learn what the idealized best strategy is. This helps me develop a vocabulary of what to do in a specific matchup. For example, I’m trying to learn what Bison’s best strategy is against Ryu. In chess, you don’t take the player into account when evaluating a position – you don’t say “Against Kasparov, I would move xxx, but against someone else I would move yyy”. Instead, you find the best move for White.
Same for fighting games. I try to find the best move for my character.
Now in a tournament, I’ll of course pull out all the stops and try to learn and adapt to what my opponent is doing. But I try not to rely on that during normal games, because I want to explore the problem space of what the best moves are in the abstract. Also, as Frank mentioned, when I do that, then I give my opponents a chance to also find a counter to those moves, and then I can find a counter to that… all of which makes us all better when it’s time for the REAL tournament (fighting at Evo).
I go 100% all the fucking time. I just don’t give a shit.
Thanks for the feedback… glad to know I wasn’t too far out in left field.
I get what you’re saying about limiting options. I like it. I’ll work on applying it.
zass, I like what you’re saying about fighting characters. I’ll have to work on that, too.
This is such a uniquely intangible part of life and of fighting games it is hard to know where “I” should begin because, in my opinion, this thread is about being on the correct path. Where to begin is subjective to the individual. We all take similar paths and the exact same paths, I could say. We just make all of our stops in different order.
That being said. I’d like to speak about the issue of talent first. I hope that you all know me well enough to not think I’m some cocky a**hole masturbating for you all to watch because I will bring up myself often because I am most familiar with myself. Here we go…
I am an extremely talented individual. There has been nothing that I have come across that I am incapable of doing. What I am saying describes my belief system and why I’m talented. It is not because everything is naturally easy in itself. It is because I assume I’ll be good at anything I try. This has led me to doing many different things in life that might surprise the heck out of a lot of you. In reference to SF as well as player mindsets, this is why I win. I do not win because I am smarter than anyone. I don’t win because I’m more talented than anyone. This is a belief system. I could be crappy as hell by my own standards and do something great in the eyes of others. It’s an issue of essence. You could say it is how I’ve been raised. I value relationships and experiences over anything. I don’t conform to anyone’s opinion although 3rd party perspective is important from certain points of view(see how I did that? perspectives and points of view are the same thing). I understand both sides of the coin. Consequently, and with little effort, I can have top level gameplay without top level dedication.
For example. Sf4 will be out shortly and all of you have much more experience than I do. I will not be playing it at home for awhile. That being said, you all would be foolish to think you will beat me because you played 500 hours more than me in competition and in practice. The reason is that I know I can beat anyone. This is not in question. You can only practice so much and I don’t need skill to win. I don’t need to do a lot of damage and I don’t need to have a lot of experience. Give me 2 hours with a training mode to adjust to the timing of the game and its system and most players will get beaten down.
Yes. This sounds arrogant but it isn’t. This is the mindset that literally makes me better than 90% of players regardless of their skill and experience. It is because I think this way that I am capable of being exactly what I expect to be. I believe I am BETTER than you. There is no doubt there. If I lose it is only because of dedication and how much I care about it. I enjoy many aspects of life so you won’t ever see me spending a lot of time on any kind of games because I have already obtained most of the experiences in fighting games that I needed to for self-fulfillment. I will get bored fast at this point. What keeps me coming back is the beauty of creation that came from a small group
of players that spread throughout the world thanks to the faith and dedication of everyone involved. The fighting scene is something beautiful to behold from the perspective of being here since its birth. There will never be a time in my life where I can’t take a month out and play a few hours a day and be a great challenge to anyone because I fully understand what is being discussed here. I understand the psychology of competition.
I wish you to all understand that fighting games and winning is a microcosm for all experiences in life. For me, I need you all to get that. Being a winner in fighting games let’s you win at life no matter what your goals. You don’t need a damn thing telling you what you are. The difference between genius and stupidity is directly linked to what you DECIDE to believe about yourself. We’re emotional. As much as we control our emotions we are subject to them or we would be no better than robots. Loss is a thing of VALUE. Winning is not the only benefit of playing. Losing is of greater benefit in many ways but, I’ll get into that at a later point.
For now, you have to understand that belief in oneself starts first with a decision and a focus on living out that decision as well as maintaining a firm control on the focus of that decision. If you decide, focus, achieve and maintain all that you learn, you NEVER truly lose, EVER. You are great and then you become greater. You only lose when you focus on the loss with a negative mindset. You win when you know how to win. In the end, when everyone understands this, we all advance. I can’t tell you how upset I’ve been at past generations in Street when they get stuck in thinking they can’t win. I have literally had to strategize and use mind control techniques by way of controlling
perception. When one person dominates for a time, most players idolize that player. They actually begin to put themselves below that player in order to look up to them. It’s the difference between “I wish I could be like that” and “I can’t wait until I switch roles with that person.”
I enjoy losing. I know that because I am who I’ve been, that when someone beats me, they get confident. They literally become better. This is what makes me START to want to play “for real.” Then I get to adjust and walk all over a better player. Then they start to think they were lucky and I have to lose in order to make it the real challenge again. The problem is with this idea we call talent.
Talent is defined in ways that are just unwise. I am talented because I know “I can.” I am not talented when I choose to be lazy in learning. That is the difference between the talented and the untalented. The “natural talent” phenomenon comes from the knowing of what can’t be known. It comes from faith. It comes from the power of your belief in what you do or say. That being said, I can teach a player something, and take it right back out of his mind. I relinquish control of the win. In order to beat me when I am at my best and truly desire to crush everyone, you have to defeat my mind. You have to beat me metaphysically. That is a trick. You have to pull some kickboxer crap and take my mind out of the game and focus it on something else. I control what I believe about myself. That is where my talent lies. You have to make me doubt myself and I have lived too long and been successful in the high AND low times of experience. I’ve had it easy and difficult and enjoyed overcoming the roads of both. I am not at the mercy of what others think of me because I do not hoard knowledge; I share it. I want you to be able to beat me so that I can have a truly amazing battle of wills and experience. If you do not think you can beat me, there is no value in me breaking you. I will take a break or become less so that my opponent can become better and a piece of me hopes that when you win you become arrogant so that I may be able to really fuck your mind up because you’ve been made to believe in an illusion. You relished the sweetness of victory and given me a beautiful taste of defeat which fuels desire. I want to win in a special way. Winning for the sake of winning went out of style when I was about 16. I have to obtain something beyond just winning for it to be worthwhile. This is the beauty of advancement based on the feeling of emotion. I want my emotion to be inspired and not merely controlled because I’ve come to the point where I can be a robot and just do what needs to be done and it sucks. There is nothing sweet about just going from A to B. We would not enjoy stories if that were the case. Once we understand a formula we get bored of the formulaic. At least I do.
So talent comes from learning to take faith into belief into knowing. You don’t believe in yourself. That isn’t enough. You have got to KNOW yourself. This is where manifesting your talent comes from. We all need a challenge and a life full of an interesting weave of storylines that pulls the heartstrings. It is what makes us human.
So controlling knowing comes from controlling emotion. Focusing it in the right direction. For me, I have to go through a stage of not caring at ALL. I have to have odds stacked against me and have to try to make things worthwhile when it comes to fighting games because I’ve won plenty. I have to show something beyond just winning and I need to show a specific something to a specific group. Perfection is pretty simple once you know you can do anything. Then it sucks. Life becomes boring. What if the hero in every story wins for free everytime. What is the point in the story?
So there is no difference between someone that does a combo the first time they try and the person that does it the 1000th time they try other than the greatness of the story. If you hate losing, you hate truly winning. If you are a champion and no one touches you, ever, you must have only one goal in life. It is all about an individual’s path. How much you want something, how you want it, when you want, and exactly what kind of experience you want to create and what you’re willing to do to make it happen. Are you in love
with winning or losing. Are you selfish or a teamplayer. You decide all of it.
So it comes down to what you know and how much you fight for something and how much you fight against yourself. Many times it is about how you want to communicate with your spirit. If you haven’t won, you probably want to prove something to yourself. I am behind that 100%. When you focus on beating a player, a region or a world tournament you are just picking which mountain you climb and how you do it. Leveling up is increasing your belief in yourself through whatever rituals do that for you.
However, the number one pitfall is accepting what you can’t do instead of accepting what you can. There is nothing you can’t accomplish. The problem is that most need to do it first to believe it when it is easier to believe it first and then do it. The long road gets taken for no good reason and some people waste their lives pursuing one experience. Winning is winning no matter what you are doing and losing is only the path one takes to a greater victory.
There is nothing noble about making winning hard for yourself. It is only natural and so is scratching your ass and beating a dead horse until YOU bleed. Know that you are the ONE and then just do what you, as an individual, needs to do to be that ONE and then share your truth with the many. Then you have a real story. Defeat is just a pile of shit you use to turn into gold to inspire someone else to enjoy the ride you did.
In short, there is no such thing as talent. It is only the belief in what you are capable of over time. Don’t worry about pitfalls. Everyone has them. Just don’t get stuck in the ditch. That ditch is called average. None of you are average. You just have different paths to winning. Oddly enough, I win when you win. One day, I like to think that what I say will get passed on. lol I guess I’m wierd like that.
I’ll be more literal later.
Apoc.
So… I know I suck for this… but I’m just now getting started with an arcade stick. I honestly haven’t been to (much less spent any significant amount of time at) an arcade in years. Because I’m effectively getting a fresh start on a stick, I’d like to see if anyone would post on the physical aspects of fighting games. Best posture for effective gesturing, best way to hold/move the stick, piano drumming (maybe?), and things like that. I know there’s a point to “do whatever works best for you,” but I’m guessing there really are some habits that are more consistently effective than others.
I remember reading in a Domination 101 post about the way that top-tier Japanese players frequently release the stick so that it snaps back to neutral. I’ve been using that same approach insofar. I also hold the stick (stock balltop of an EX2) loosely with thumb and pointer finger on the balltop and index/middle finger usually resting against the stick itself.
Please… whoever is skilled in the physical side of stick-based control… share with me your advice on how to be most effective with a stick… and which habits to make before I start making the wrong ones.
Many much thanks. :tup:
they’re just games.
data.
electrons.
bits of metal, wood, and plastic.
sure they’re are plenty of people better than me at competitive gaming, but of those people, how many are turning a profit?
i don’t play games to make money, or beast, or dominate.
i enjoy the scene.
and i think that some people forget that keeping the local scene alive is what counts.
go be the best you can be.
go to tournaments.
so you can meet other top players, come back home, brag about it and spit mad trash, alienate yourself from the local scene.
it’s whatever to me, or to be specific, it’s just games.
people are all talented in their respective areas.
imo.
Apoc, thanks for the post. If I had the power to rep you, I’d do that. Remind me to hit you later once I have enough posts. :lol:
There were points where you got a little far into a worldview I can’t quite get on board with (not sure what to classify it as, though… some branch of subjectivism, maybe?)… but I agree probably 98% of the time.
Great read. Thanks! :tup:
Oh… and as you no doubt see… the formatting got screwed over when you posted it… making it a little less easy to read.
Apoc, I really want to read that post. Could you fix the spacing to make it a bit easier on the eyes?
I suck. I tried to do too many things at once and didn’t bother to check. Fixed.
Sorry about that.
Apoc.
Yes yes yes, this is why I asked Apoc to post in our thread cause I knew he was gonna post truth. Goodness, that post resonated with me for many reasons, and I’ll post some of them here.
This is EXACTLY how I feel about playing other games that I may not be truly interested in. I’ve always enjoyed playing many games just to see how good I could be in any given game, but what I think I didn’t realize about that, is that the same Mandel that’s playing say MvC2, is the same Mandel that’s playing CvS2. If that makes any sense. I’m approaching both games with the same exact mentality.
A-fuckin-MEN! I remember for a while feeling silly about making that correlation between fighting games and life in my mind after experiencing the exhilaration that comes with having won a tourney. I remember actually reading posts by people stating how stupid it is to try to correlate the two. But what people don’t get is that it’s the fact that you competed and succeeded at something you’re passionate in. And that comes from a result of knowing you have the ability in yourself. So winning in video games, is no different than winning on the basketball court, or getting a girl’s #. Who wins if they don’t think it’s possible in the very slightest?
Exactly. For the longest time I used to think “Yeah I believe I can be good” or “I think I can beat him” The problem with that is that thoughts and beliefs are easily swayed. No one can tell you otherwise when you know something. If you know you’re the shit, what can I say to you to make you think otherwise? Absolutely nothing.
Man I am hella looking forward to your other posts Apoc. I got a blog I made the other day that I’m gonna post up sometime soon as well.
I’ve got to add that putting yourselves out there is great. The whole scene will improve. However, it isn’t too bright if you are trying to beat other regions. You are making them think too. lol
Great thread Frank! Mad good posts in here.
As for formula that is more literal to improve…
It is good to know what every character can do but you should master only a few so that you bring yourself into the character. “Become one with your character” lol.
Practice every skill until you don’t have to think or focus on execution. I’m an ass at this. I’m a lazy player usually.
Know your weaknesses and make them your strengths and, at the same time, fix your weaknesses. It is like being blind makes hearing improve. If you are slow, find ways to fake speed or give the illusion of it and then, work on your speed too. A millisec makes a difference everytime. Speed + anticipation is greater than either of them alone.
Know your strengths and don’t focus on what you are good at naturally. Balance your overall game first.
Play the computer and opponents both master and scrub alike. It is all valuable. Doing something “stupid” is sometimes the smartest thing you can do. Many mathematical players can’t comprehend non-linear gameplay.
Know your opponents character and learn your opponent if you can. Match vids are valuable just like boxing training watch opponent’s videos and how football coaches swipe playbooks.
Master recognizing patterns quickly. Most players don’t adjust until the third repetion. This helps you to know the “flow” of the match as you learn your opponent. Some don’t fix what isn’t broken and some don’t repeat patterns so that you never catch on. By patterns I also mean rhythm. Players get stuck on a button pressing of back and forth rhythm and do not know it because they are using different moves. This helps your “psychic” game.
Know your ranges. This is easily aided by learnin to watch a characters feet or shadow.
Find ways to mess with your opponents emotional perception. Some players NEED to be your enemy to win so being friendly defeats them before you play just as being a total dick hurts some players that just want to make friends in competition because they need to feel a friendly environment.
Learn to focus through noise AND learn to turn noise into energy. You can accent your demeanor by feeding on cheers and jeers and even total silence.
Do not overtrain. If you do not take a break now and then you absorb a lot of knowledge that doesn’t even help you personally. A break purges your mind of things you sub-consciously know isn’t helping you and makes you game more solid. All knowledge is good knowledge but that doesn’t mean you apply it all properly naturally.
I’ve got things to do but I thought I’d just throw out random tidbits. My last post was a bit existential but I needed it to be. Sorry, you’re right about that Kendrick.
Tajiri, life is a game:) A life well-lived is a game well-played, lol. Just messing with you bro. I agree with you. Everyone is talented in their respective areas. What people are passionate about is usually what they are good at.
See yall later.
Apoc.
this was not directed at you, merely what i have encountered in portland.
your feed back is appreciated though.
sorry if it came off as being directed at you and/or seattle.
furthermore, if i’ve never been to seattle, why would i comment on their scene?
that would be pretentious.
seattle has been extremely friendly, welcoming, and awesome when i have had the pleasure of hanging out with them.
so relax.
i’m not for promoting drama like that (maybe when i was ignorant when i first moved to pdx, but not anymore)
srsly.
/edit apoc:
i totally know where you’re coming from, but to me gaming is just about hanging out akin to smoking, drinking, and shooting guns.
it’s just something to do.
but if i were to state my two cents on the “competitive” side, fighting games are a lot like golf.
granted there are opponents, but most of the game is played against yourself.
if that makes sense.
All he is saying is that we all get different things from the scene/games. Just because some people don’t aim for top 8 doesn’t mean they can’t get the benefits of doing their best. Hell, the number one reason I play fighters is because the shit is fun. There is no profound or life changing meaning behind this, and there never will be. Granted, I always aim to improve myself because I want to know how far I can push myself. Then again, I apply that mindset to anything that is worth my time. Gwop City.
Another awesome post, Apoc. I’d be taking notes if you weren’t already so concise. :lol: Seriously. Thanks for the tips.
I don’t have any problems with it. Like I said… I agreed with practically everything you said… there were just little elements here and there that I wasn’t on board with on a worldview level. Those things were super minute… not even sure why I felt the need to mention it. :lol: Both of these posts from you… phenomenal.
Again, my gratitude.
This, along with the thread title “I am my own worst enemy,” sort of sum up what my next goal is in fighting games. I want to get my execution down so I can stop feeling like I am playing against my own shortcomings, and start focusing totally on the match.
Damn! Quality advice.
That part about golf, I couldn’t disagree more, lol. In golf, everyone has to shut up to concentrate whereas in street, you have to know how to focus beyond the noise yourself and the ball hits back, lol
On that other note. You are right on there. It makes perfect sense.
Apoc.