dude it’s all good, i’d comment on it but i suck too much to learn kara-cancels at this point… heh.
but yeah, back to Ken… and some more questions… perhaps omni knows why HF Ken is better? i get the impression that CE Ken simply does more damage but HF Ken has a couple more tricks with the air tatsumaki?
also, dogberry or anyone else familiar with CPS2 versions… are there noticeable differences between ST O.Ken and Super Ken? for some reason i just felt better with Super Ken than ST Old, but then i also feel better with CE Ken compared to HF Ken, when i think HF should be better.
I have a question about Ken, A while back someone had a thread about who to pick in Super Turbo, either S or ST version And they said S Ken was better than ST ken, could someone explain this?
does CE Ken really have more range on DP? it kinda “feels” that way to me, but it could just be that i’m more inclined to play that way when i’m using CE Ken compared to HF Ken.
G-Product, i don’t REALLY know so i’m just going to venture a guess. i would think that it comes down to a matter of preference and matchups… S Ken i’m told does fireball zoning better and of course has the invincible DP. i think ST Ken is a better candidate for rushdown? his moves are certainly geared more for pressure and confusion… and he’s got knee-throw traps, so i think he’s a close range character more. that’s the impression i get, anyway… it’s probably got more to do with matchups, and i’m sure someone else can fill in the blanks.
Hate to disagree with you, DM, but my understanding of this process is a bit different.
Have you ever seen a Ryu player try to do cr.roundhouse xx fireball, see the first frame of the roundhouse come out, apparently whiff entirely, and then Ryu magically suddenly appear doing a fireball? This is weird especially when the cr.roundhouse was outside of range, and wouldn’t have hit, so he shouldn’t have been able to cancel it into a fireball. The same thing can happen with st.roundhouse, cr.short, and a variety of other moves. It happens when a normal is input almost simultaneously to a special, much like how kara throws in 3rd strike work. Because of that little bit of leeway capcom gives us in inputting commands, the special still comes out, even though a normal was triggered “just before”.
My understanding of the short, short, super for Ken in ST is that it makes use of this property of Ken’s crouching short. You chain 3 of them together, but kara cancel the third one, effectively making the super the third hit in the chain instead of the cr.short the game still thinks you just did. The third one never hits, and, in fact, is replaced by the super animation so fast you never even notice it come out. But it is there. The same thing can be done with some characters’ standing/crouching jabs, etc.
Normally, you cannot cancel any chained normal into a special. This works, however, because it is not a “cancel” in the traditional sense, merely an abuse of a mechanism capcom implemented to help make the game more playable.
I have been practicing this, after reading this thread, doing the motion ending with :df:, and holding the :df: once I’m done. No matter how careful I am to NOT let the stick progress to :r: or to neutral, it still seems to come out. Then again, my execution has never been the best around here, and it’s possible that my slightly sloppy hands are screwing things up somewhere…anyone got a programmable stick to check?
I too, thought it was the same thing… but when trying other examples (i am a training mode junkie sometimes) with every other character, I just can’t get it to work that way.
I tried the Rog thing yesterday… and it continues to work the way I see it. I disconnected the :d: switch on the joystick, and tried s.jabs into kara s.jab into super… and this is a really really easy combo with d.jabs, but I couldn’t get it to work at all with s.jabs. But when I hooked :d: back up, and used the workaround technique, I could get it to work everytime, and easily. (charge :l:, s.:lp: x3, :r:, roll :l::db::d::df:+:lp:, :r:+:hp:)
So I can’t help but think that there is a rule to follow. I am open to suggestions though, if you can suggest anything else for me to try. Or perhaps I’m doing something wrong that makes this rule apply and I could otherwise break it somehow? I dunno.
NOTE: if anyone else is trying this stuff, remember to do really quick RFWAs. They have to chain, and NOT link into each other. If you link them, the RFWA rules don’t kick it and it can give you false results. Especially apparent with RFWAs like Gief and DJ’s d.jabs.
alright, so, question about ST Ken… it would seem to me that he must have a good throw control game since he has a standing hold, then two throws which have varying distances, giving him the ability to space people… but i could never really find a use for his air throw. is it good? i completely forget that he has it usually. i know that other characters can use them to win air to air battles but i seriously never think of that with Ken… so is it a goood air throw, or only good for punishing moves (which i’d think i’d just do with a combo instead)?
again i know little about ST Ken, comes from not having much access to this game ever… the arcades i went to skipped over ST. but anyway, i just know from fighting CPU Ken that at first, you can use his command kicks to overhead, though it’s not hard to block on reaction. i also read that you can make him “teleport” to the other side of a floored body for some weird tricks. outside of that, i don’t know what their use is. i suppose the one that ends up being his standing forward kick in SFA could be used as distance antiair since his new roundhouse is terrible at that (old habits die hard :xeye: ) or you could do the command for the old roundhouse… but i’m just guessing while i have reduced access to the game.
yeah, that’s kinda what i thought… and so far as i recall, all air throws in this game are techable. just trying to see if anyone used this move or if it’s mostly forgotten… i’ve only used Ken’s air throw in CvS2 vs. C-groove people who air block, and even then it’s an accident.
