I think us making a list of unmashable crush setups and double crush setups sounds like a pretty good idea.
Short Gamma Crush Mashability Explanation–
An opponent can start mashing when they hit the ground. The longer it takes them to hit the ground the less time they have to mash. If they take to long hulk gets back to soon and they cannot mash. An assist hitting while hulk is offscreen can also delay them enough to make a crush unmashable.
In this way you could say crushes can be easily mashable, difficult to mash but possible, unmashable, and semi-unmashable.
Q.) Can you solo gamma charge xx gamma crush and get unmashable?
A.) Hell yes… in a couple ways…
1.) crush first hit connects at ground level… they will slow spiral down getting there hardly (and sometimes not) before hulk… no getting out.
2.) cancel when they are at the proper angle… sooo many angles to connect at… its all timing… but not that hard. Just wait til they are low… less strict timing on sent/juggs type…
3.) lk gamma charge xx crush connects on most non sent/juggs as unmashable… but has tight timing.
So here’s my fav way… and its a bit of a mind fuck…
gamma charge xx (pause here… let the charge go into a bit of recovery… almost always they will throw out an attack if you give em a moment… but you got an age to cancel this combo. soo… xx gamma crush…
most times you nail em… at ground level… no mashy mashy… and if you have something good to DHC to… dead character.
Out of thousands of matches using hulk… almost everyone of any skill level falls for this once in awhile. He just looks so vulnerable and everyone knows how damn long the recovery of gamma charge is…
Awesome. I’d love to see some of these matches. Can you start recording them and putting them online if possible?
That reminded me of something…
Wanna piss off the Cables even more? Hulk-b, XXXX, Jin-b.
XXXX= Either Cable-b, or a crush aider assist like Ironman-b, Doom-b, Storm-a/y, Sentinel-a [rocketpunch…]. Characters like Magneto who can DHC for a crush would also apply. Magneto also has an inescapable tempest combo with the Hulk assist.
Basically, unless they actually know the game and know which assist compromises Jin-b, [and actually use it] they will lose. Only Doom-b [or blatant carelessness on the part of the Hulk…] will save their ass.
This ruins all the assist schemes that Cable would normally use otherwise. All you have to do is stay within blast radius at all times and they die for free.
Rules to follow…
1]Stay within blast radius at all times. It isn’t hard, just abuse the dashjump and be persistent. No exceptions. Period.
2]Only call the assist if they have also called their assist [or you have them in a combo…]
-Make note of rule 1 here.
-No calling of assists unless you are in a position where Cable’s in blast radius, AND you can dashjump when the bomb goes off.
3]If you see them doing a standing hp, you can blow them up. They’ll never recover in time.
4]Dashjump or gamma charge the second the explosion is starting.
5]Start out with just empty dashjumps. No attacks. You want him to eventually stop calling his assists.
One of 3 things will happen…
1]Cable and his assist BOTH get blown up…
-This is most likely the first thing that will happen in the match.
-You gamma charge XX quake his assist.
-You hard gamma charge recovering long before he lands, and can superjump up to greet him. Even if he blocks it and comes down in a position to AHVB your assist, you can land behind him quite easily.
-You dashjump. The assist is behind him. He can’t shoot it.
2]He will attempt to AHVB Jin solo getting hit by Hulk from below or behind.
-This is the second thing that’s likely to happen in the match.
-You dashjump or whiff a hard gamma charge to close the distance.
3]Cable’s assist gets Called, Cable attempts to block.
-This is the third thing that’s likely to happen. You’re almost ready to kill Cable now.
-Execute the dashjump to cross up Cable. If done correctly, it appears safe to AHVB Jin, but you’ll end up crossing him up preventing this, or land underneath him.
4]Cable completely stops trying assist calls and must fight solo.
-This is where we get to find out if the player knows how to fully use Cable. If the player can’t fight properly without his assist scheme, he’s going to lose.
There are only 2 ways you lose this fight in general.
1]You got careless and he AHVB’d something.
2]He brought Doom-b along for the ride.
I shouldn’t be telling you all this, I’m a Cable player LOL!!, then again, I don’t own an X-box 360 or a PS3, so…
As a side note, this strategy is also usable by Magneto opening the door for a Magneto or Storm, Hulk, Jin-b team.
That would work really well. When punishing gamma charges, I wait till the DHC window closes. Only players that use Hulk know when that is, so this will remain useful forever. Too many people [even myself…] tend to forget that there are more than 4 characters in this game. I tend to gamma wave instead here so that if they eat that they get blasted into the corner so that I can rush them down.
Here is a partial list. It’s gonna get edited like CRAZY.
Combos:
=Notes:
The vast majority of these can be comboed off air attacks into…
Standing unmashables:
-Opponent is standing on the ground when the asteroid hits them literally on the head.
1]Dashjump, lk,mk, dlk+assist, dmk, activate…
Assists:Spiral-y[multipunch], Juggernaut-a[ground/earthquaker mid-screen only], Storm-a [really dammed hard…]
2]Dashjump attacks, land, dlk, call Samurai-a [anyplace, anytime…] or Juggernaut-a [IF they are cornered…], dmk, activate.
Floating Unmashables:
-Opponent is knocked into the air, and floats through the air till his body hits the ground. Usually, you cannot escape even if you land first. If you drop like a rock, you can escape.
1]Single hit Dhp, activate
Assists: Solo [no assist] Forgotten others…
2]Cross-up, assist call, ducking lk, assist hits, activate
Assists: Sentinel-a, Doom-b[I think], Capcom-b, Cable-b, Jin-b, Ken-a[anti-air], Juggernaut-b [dash/Juggernaut Punch], Cyclops-b [I believe, not sure]
-There are many other assists that work this way. So many it’s unbelievable. Almost any assist that lifts you off the ground or sends you flying.
3]Dashjump, dlk, call Sentinel-a [rocketpunch], Dmk, hard gamma charge, they eat the rocketpunch immediately changing the nock-up, activate crush.
Double Crushes
[Air-pin, / Ping-pong, Bypass Crushes…]
-All double crushes are bypass crushes, but for the purposes of what I’m saying here, I’m referring to getting hit once on the way up, once on the way down, and once when they fall into the explosion. The weakest ones are generally [but not always] ones of this nature where they don’t hit as much as they can. The Pingpongs are the same thing as the bypass ones, but more powerful. They tend to also be less stable. Air-pins are the worst. If you get hit by one, walk away.
1]Dlk+assist, dmk, whiff rise activate.
-This is almost exclusively corner
-Virtually every anti-air assist will work like this including Ken-a and y, Akuma-a, Cable-b, Ironman-b [Point-blank, Mid-screen. off jump-ins, you must dash first to make it work mid-screen. doable vs cornered foes. This is actually an air-pin…], Blackheart-b [Wait til under them [non-cross-up], then activate. This one isn’t very stable. Some characters like Sakura fail miserably to get crushed…] Jin-b.
2]dlk, dmk, call assist, gamma charge, gamma crush.
-This is the most typical and famous version. When cornered, it works with all the assists mentioned in 1 under the same rules [corner only…]
Assists: While Capcom-b, Jin-b, Colossus-b/anti-air], most other anti-air ones, and Blackheart can all work this way when the opponent is cornered, some like Doom-b and BH-b can both work well mid-screen with certain timing adjustments.
-Blackheart, you wait till shortly before you cross-up.
-Doom, you fully cross-up. You want to either just barely graze them after you cross-up and hold in the opposite direction of the gamma charge you did. Keep in mind, that if you whiff on the way up it’s still going to hit.
-Storm-y See Doom-b.
I will get more matches with hulk posted in the next couple weeks… buying myself a new cam for xmas…
Newish and 2nd fav solo crush…
launch, sj.lk, (pause), sj.mk, (longer pause), fwd+fp… this crosses up under their feet… if they don’t switch their block. fp hits and causes flying screen… throwing them from behind you to in front of you… where on the way down you can lk, mk, (feet touch) gamma crush.
If they do manage to switch blocking sides… see the air throw reset thread…
p.s. - also highly effective to do on an assist… just remove the pauses and fp…
Another solo setup (corner)… anything ending in s.fp xx lk gamma charge xx crush… the charge misses under their feet and you end up crushing as they get super low… perfect angle for an unmashable double crush.
Some more assist unmashable and/or double crush setups…
Bison Variety -> launch while calling bison… d,db,b+pp(crush)… they should land on the orb as it blows and hulk come down on top of em…
Ironman DHC (corner) -> end anything(normally the rejump inf) in the corner w/proton cannon DHC to crush… its basically proton cannon DHC double crush… no one survives…
Ironman AAA(midscreen) -> good starting with dashjump in… j.lk,(call IM AAA), c.lk, c.mk, (IM AAA starts hitting), engage crush… the first hit misses but hulk come back down to a double… so its more like a 180% crush rather than a
Thanos DHC (anywhere) -> any thanos combo ending in a standing POWA, quick DHC to gamma crush… really simple.
As always great stuff Titan. I owe the fact that I even can make Hulk a competitive character to all the work you and Deathfist have put in I REALLY appreciate the helpful strategies.
That said the people want a video of this kind of stuff in action!(Me being the people lol)
Standing crush
1]Storm-a [really dammed hard…]
2]Dashjump, dlk, call Samurai-a, dmk, activate.
-Note: The timing of the assist call is similar to the floating one with Sentinel-a but you replace the gamma charge to crush with a crush activation.
Storm on point Bypass
launch, sj lp,[pause]lp, lk, mp, mk, lightning attack twice up forwards, examine the victim and qcb [away from the victim]+2p
-This is the work anywhere version.
Found a new floating crush. Rogue-anti air assist
Dlk, dmk, call rogue, hard gamma charge, when she does the axe handle to knock them down, activate.
New assist mentioned in the standing crushes section.
2]Dashjump attacks, land, dlk, call Samurai-a [anyplace, anytime…] or Juggernaut-a [IF they are cornered…], dmk, activate.
You can also get air-pin style crushes off the Rogue throw assist. Unblockable, near fatal damage.
I just found that you can get an air pin double crush with Iceman’s Variety assist. Launch (both hits), call assist, activate Crush when opponent is at the apex of the launch, and watch. Hold forward if you are in the corner. In testing I averaged 125-130 dmg vs. Cable, 105 vs. Sent, and 137(!) on poor Magneto.
And I thought that assist was useless…
Sabertooth-b assist
-One of the absolute best assists in the game.
Dlk, call Sabertooth beta, dmk, gamma charge, activate. Air-pin.
-You can vary the assist timing if you want and it can still work.
-You can DHC in Sabertooth by doing the super that’s based on his wild fang [the dragonpunch with 2 punches one where he jumps at you…]
Dlk+assist call, dmk, whiff activate.
-Sometimes too much time happens between the second last and last hit making the last hit blockable, but the timing can be adjusted to work more consistently.
Hulk BB-Hood Anti air assist
-Floating crush
Dlk, dmk, call and immediate gamma charge, gamma crush on last hit of fire
Thanos Soul DHC, unmashable single, midscreen-> Thanos fp xx d, db, b+ kk, let it get 5 hits or so and DHC to crush…
Thanos Soul DHC, unmashable double, corner-> Thanos fp xx d, db, b+ kk, let it get 5 hits or so and DHC to crush…
Hood unblockable DHC, unmashable single, anywhere-> Hood f,df,d,db,b+kk DHC crush (before he hops to toss the bombs.)
Doom Air Photon DHC, unmashable double, anywhere-> doom air photons DHC gamma crush… (this always works for single… but learn to combo so the doom lets some photons miss under the opps feet… hulks hit on the way opp knocks them onto these… which pin for his return…)
Side Tiip for double snaps at match start… my god is it easy if they using psy or mando…
Before the bell crowd the shit out of em… at the bell n.jump up+fwd and mash in lk, mk, land, snapout… your 2 frame lk beats out almost anything here… juggles the opp… mando or psi will just pose and wait to be snapped… if they block the lk, mk you can normally go for a throw or launch depending on whether they block on the way down or stick something out… Very good match starter for hulk…
=Throw into Assist
1.]Call Juggernaut and kick throw. They’ll eat the assist.
-If they are cornered and they don’t roll, dlk, gamma charge, gamma wave.
-Another possible thing you can do is if you have Gambit second and they don’t roll, you can activate a gamma quake [or wave], and fast DHC lifting them off the ground, and then DHC in Juggernaut for the instant kill on average stamina characters outright.
=Inescapable cornered foe double Crush…
1.]dashjump,lk, mk, land, dlk, Call Juggernaut, dmk, immediate activation.
-The ground portion is as fast as possible.
-Juggernaut’s dashpunch will lift them just high enough when done properly to make a killing inescapable double crush.
-It’s also possible to go dlk, dmk+call Juggernaut-b and activate to get it to combo. Your super’s frame freeze will cause Juggernaut to combo in this situation.
-I still prefer Juggernaut-a when using Hulk to Juggernaut-b. More ways to waste someone’s character.
My fav juggs setup is hulk airthrow into dash assist… then falling lk, falling mk xx crush… which has to be done real quick… but you cannot mash out… add a mean AAA to the team to encourage them to be blocking when they jump in… and you’ve got em trained into the setup.
or
airthrow into juggs dash, fall, gamma charge fwd xx super… works great… but if its crush they will be able to mash… cept in the corner.
hey guys, just wanted to tell you guys something. Hulk can double crush with Colossus AAA in corner.
Cr. lk, cr. lk + colossus xxx Gamma Crush. A whooping 130 damage on Cable.
And Hulks assist is gdlk with Juggernaut (glitched): hp grab, j. lk, j. hk, call hulk, assist hits, headcrush for a ridiculous 142 damage. smh where has the world came to?
oh and Hulk can do a THC combo with Juggernaut and colossus (yall probably been knew, but whatever)- cr. lk, cr. lk THC= Death.
Lately I’ve been practicing corner gb to gamma charge infinite… tricky but satisfying…lol
Hulk/jugs is so beast vs rushdown… I’d say as a duo they are awesome anti-msp… but storm’s runaway can be a prob for juggs or meterless hulk… still watching magnus try to get through both their super armored asses w/out getting tagged for most of his life can be fun…
yeah rape squad (jugg/Hulk/Colossus) beats the hell out of MSP. I laugh when Storm tries to run from juggernaut and they end up the the corner. hp grab into whatever kills almost everything lol.
and magneto lol thats a funny guy. he just wants to hit me and he always makes me laugh… then I destroy his soul lol
Updated a few things in the main post… and stay tuned b/c I’m shooting hulk footage again!! yay… just to show a few combos, mixups, and broke ass assist punishes… oh yeah… gb’s…
this:
lol… I can’t find weaknesses in hulk anymore. He feels stronger, faster, and more versatile than ever. He’s got great matchups vs near everyone and very little that can be safely exploited against him.
I have a few questions [alot actually…,] but first, there’s something in the first post that I think needs to be fixed…
My version looks like this…
The version you posted may work, I’m not sure. I’d need to test it… I wonder if you could use your cross-up reset to juggle their assist indefinitely? Hmmmm,
Questions about Hulk’s guard-breaking and moves for Mad Titan , Rodd Driguez, and others…
A few questions...
1]How good is Hulk's jumping lp at snuffing triangle jumps?
I'm kinda curious, as I found that the hit-box on that thing is ridiculously big [I may never use the flying lk again outside of combos. Actually, that's an exaggeration...]. If it's real easy to snuff them with this, that's gonna be a free gamma crush.
Also, I know that the flying lk will guard-break which leads to 2 more questions…
2]Does lp [off dash-jumps] guard-break people falling in? [99% positive it does. Since dash-jump lk does, and lp hits way higher and from below, there's absolutely no justifiable reason it shouldn't. [the block-stuns are similar...]
3]If so, does lp, mk guard-break?
4]If 3 doesn't guard-break, how easy would it be to hit detect the lp, so you can score the floating crush should they get wise and take the hit.
5]Can dashjump lp guard-break mid-screen vs people jumping forwards or backwards? [if so, can lp,mk?...] I'm thinking about guardbreaking a Cable that normal jumps back and killing it
If all the above holds true, picture this...
WARNING: EXPERIMENTAL / UNTESTED INFORMATION
-Use at own risk…
-Bolded parts experimental…
-You kill 1 guy off your launch lk,mk, cross up hp mixup trap [or whatever else tickles your fancy . You back dash, dash-jump, and **lp, mk chain to guard-break **before they land. They block, you dhp [1st hit only], and [vertical hard gamma charge, uf light redirect, land, vertical hard gamma charge, uf light redirect]xN which is Hulk’s fatal infinite, dead character. You back-dash again, dash-jump lk,mk chain. They get smart and take the hit, and end up eating a gamma crush to proton cannon of the chain, into photon array. The entire match went down the tubes immediately following the first dead character.
Experimental stuff ends…
Thanks to you, I also figured out a new combo.
=Opponent jumps:
Dash-jump or normal jump lp,mk, hard vertical gamma charge up, hard uf redirect.
-If they're cornered and hit by this [and don't roll] you can dlk, them upon landing, and combo out of it. This could result in an infinite or charge XX crush.
-Also, if they don't roll, you can dash-jump maintaining the initiative.
=Thanks for the [airborne opponent] lp or lk, to mk, land instant activate gamma crush floating un-mashable. I also have to thank you for the idea of instead of gamma charging cable's normal jump specials to gamma wave, to whiffing it to get a floating crush.
All this stuff may turn the Hulk vs Cable match into a horrific mismatch. And I DON'T mean favoring Cable.
If you're using Hulk-IM-Doom, and they can't tech hit, or roll from EVERY air throw, then modern Cable stands no chance. [Modern Cable = no Doom assist...]
-Any jump-back can result in a dash-jump lp, mk chain, and if that hits, its a gamma crush to proton cannon.
-There's also the air-throw otg, call Doom, Gamma charge XX crush XX proton cannon [but that's obvious...],
-There's getting thrown into Ironman [3 kills a character outright, and that doesn't take into account the fact they're opened to a free gamma charge hit continuation...]
As a theoretical side note: If it’s possible to guard-break someone’s jump-back with flying lp, or lk,mk, or both the dash-jump lp,mk gets even worse. I’d drop Doom, gamma charge XX crush XX pc. Someone NEEDS to test this…]. If that’s the case, there’s NO way out of eating a Gamma Crush, or at the very least a gamma charge if someone jumps backwards and Hulk can hit them with this.
1.) Hulk’s j.lp is not so good outside combo’s. It’s speed and priority are fine but hulk’s to damn tall to put it where it needs to be against tri-jumps. VS triangle jumps I give em the hulk version (sj. strait up… immediate sj.hp while holding df + mash falling lk…) Once he figures out his normals aren’t gonna beat it… watch out for h.grav tho. That ghetto tri-jump is deadly and hard to beat out.
2 & 3.) The j.mk in there wont gb itself but will uphold them quite well and hit from nice n low so you can land and hit before they descend… so yes and no… the mk itself no gonna gb… but is a part of a good gb setup.
Cable is actually super easy for hulk. He has almost nothing safe except calling and covering his assist. (Which is so so on the safe side). Not to long ago I figured out that you jump into his grill blocking… block his assist… counter call with doom(or any baity assist) and immediate lk gamma charge fwd…
that scenario cable will 99% ahvb your assist… or try… but amazingly lk gamma charge is faster and you can easily hit confirm to super. If he doesn’t ahvb your assist your charge beats anything else he tries and you got doom rocks or wtver coming to back you up. Further if he jumped and did anything your charge becomes charge xx crush for the floaty unmashable… you dig
His entire gameplan is non-factor… expect to see a hasty switch to storm or sent…lol
Is the intention of this to land an airthrow to otg? That’s kinda what my testing of it appears to be giving me.
So if I were to dashjump into the guy with lp, mk, land, and gamma charge the guy when he jumps back or falls in, I’d hit with the gamma charge [as that’s kinda what I’m asking…]?
Are you sure that the light gamma charge is faster than AHVB? I think it’s just the fact that when you gamma charge, you almost always end up so close that the AHVB will miss [it misses point-blank targets of all sizes…]. I’m guessing that’s what is perpetually happening.
I’ve had both… in that I’ve light g.charged there and had it slip under his feet… but I’ve also had it pop him in the knee caps plenty of times.
The other question above about he ghetto tri jump setup… yes that’s part of the point. You can pin them down and if they try to jump and air dash into you with attacks you’ll normally throw em… and it’s so low that you can easily OTG after
