We must stop agreeing on everything that the other posts, people will think we’re the same person on two accounts…
If i actually land a mp or hp flash chop. Damn, it could propably have even a 10 frame startup if i land a chop but thats not the point.
This on the other hand is a good point. You always have to ask yourself one question tho.
- Are you playing offline or online?
I think online a dash into sa1 would be waaaay more scary than offline.
But it’s a good point you made anyway.
It’s not bad but bad enough to not use it. lol
The only matchups i can think of right now where SA1 would be kinda usefull are Necro and Gouki if you red parry into SA1.
You best be joking. If i could link my super as easy as Ken can link his SA3 Alex would be top tier lol. Well, not top but think about it. Kens SA3 can punish so many moves and it can be linked from pretty much everything.
I already said it’s a rare occurrence, but either way it can happen - a mis-timed dash, parry or attack and you can make your opponent eat them. (It can also be comboed from meaty f.fp but that’s obviously harder… good luck!)
Definitely true that lag changes everything. I think we should compile a whole other set of tier lists for netplay, hehe.
Watch the OCV from 4:11 onwards: [media=youtube]uZW3_qg6oAE&t=4m11s[/media]
Every SA1 was a different scenario. 
It’s not about what super for what matchup. When has that ever really been the standard in 3S? Most of the time people have preferences that outweigh any matchup differences related to supers. That’s really not the point.
You COMPLETELY missed the point with Alex’s super line up vs Ken’s. Ken has 3 supers that are basically the same thing. There is a straight up ranking of supers and there’s no specific alternative value to the supers other than jinrai. Jinrai is without a doubt the only super you should be using.
Alex on the other hand has a variety of supers that hit in different ways and have different effects. I would much rather have that variety than just choosing how much I want to handicap myself. That doesn’t mean that Alex’s supers have equal value but their value is less clear cut. With Ken there’s no decision to be made. All are viable but one is so distinctly superior because the others don’t do anything else to make them worth considering.
No one ever said landing an mp/hp chop is easy but the fact is you can and combo into SA1. If you choose SA1 you’re going to play to setup SA1. You’re not going to play using SA1 as if you had taken SA2.
You’ve shot yourself in the foot already by dismissing it. There are few supers that are truly not worth using. hyperbomb is not one of those.
You sound like a parrot repeating what you hear other people say. Nothing you’ve said leads me to believe you have any real experience yourself figuring out how to use things. You’re just repeating the same theories people repeat year after year when they mention balance in 3S. The people who actually play the game a lot however don’t give a fuck and decided to actually figure out how to use it or not.
What you’re saying is you’re not creative and just follow what you read from other people.
So you say i should use SA3 when i am Q playing against Remy because i prefer explosions or the sound of it?
Now i understand. You prefer the variety of Alex supers, not the strengths of his supers. Should have said that before.
Also, now you say that his SA3 should be (without a doubt) the only one to use even tho you said it’s not about supers.
So why is Hyper Bomb viable? Because it is a grab?
The only “advantage” it has is that it can’t be blocked.
Now, what happens when you use Hyper Bomb?
The other guy just presses up and escapes it.
What happens when he parried your move and you canceled into Hyper Bomb?
If he didn’t jump or do a reversal that is fast enough, he gets caught.
If he does something like a fierce after the parry then SA2 would have also caught him because both have 3 frames startup.
The fact that you just have to press up during Hyper Bomb startup makes it kinda easy to escape, don’t you think so? Everything that works with Hyper Bomb also works with Boomerang Raid, the only exception beeing a sleeping opponent who does nothing but hold back the whole time.
"If a motherfucker calling you a crackhead for 20 years, bitch you are smoking crack!"
I think there might be a reason why people say that stuff over and over again.
I am well aware of the fact that this game is not 100% balanced, no game is.
But tell you what, i don’t give a fuck! If i would then i would not play this game.
And let me say this again: I hope they wont change anything for online edition!
If they changed Hyperbomb to 1 frame, would i be happy or would i just not give a fuck at all? Would i play Alex any different? Nope. Why should i change the way i play just because of 2 frames?
I have wrote those “changes” because i thought those thing are what most people see as Alex weaknesses, so of course i am repeating what someone might have said before me! I never said “OmG I wnaT thiss hcanges plssss!!!1 ALEX SUCKZ!”
I know this thread is called "How would you re-balance Third Strike?"
I am sorry i was under the impression that if there would have to be re-balances made for certain people, they would have to be reasonable.
That’ll do pig. That’ll do.
[media=youtube]rjQtzV9IZ0Q[/media]
@failfail you can’t really win against these guys. These guys have counter-opinions to everything, it’s nothing personal it’s just how they think. You could think up the most sensible argument such as nerfing Chun’s bHP, and they will still disagree with you because they’re like that. It’s just how it is. It’s like screaming at the deaf.
I did find it funny how Tebbo said that SA1 should not be changed because it can be comboed into. But fails to mention that it can not be ticked into like LP Powerbomb. Alex has a lot of good ticks into that Powerbomb that he doesn’t with SA1. Sure he can combo off of MP/HP Flash but good luck trying to get that out against Ken or the Twins. Plus any decent player knows that they can just jump it, so if Alex picks SA1 they figure Alex is going to use it on (A) Wakeup (B) jump in © Dash in or (D) mash for MP Chops. Meanwhile they know they can do moves that he can’t punish because of a lack of EX.
Alex players use SA1 when they’re either trolling, or fighting a Urien because SA1 goes through Aegis. And even then the Urien can do Aegis on knock down and play keep away.
If I’ve said something unreasonable or that you specifically disagree with, feel free to actually post it. My point has been that I don’t think SA1 is a bad super, and nor do I personally think it needs changing: Alex is a mini, turbo Hugo and to give him a 1-frame super grab with that brilliant dash that he already has… I still don’t think it would change his overall style of rushdown/SA2 battery for EX, I think people would still use SA2 over SA1.
If people actually watch the video that I linked, THAT is how you play around SA1, the player is aware of what it will beat and what it won’t beat, and adapts it accordingly. Of all the variety of supers he landed, NOT ONE whiffed.
I have to agree, take hugo for example. Alot use SA1 however that doesn’t stop a fair few players using SA3 (including YSB of course). Both are useful supers in their own right.
That’s exactly the point. They do different things entirely and while not all characters have an even spread in terms of super strength or usefulness there’s often still variety. Which is why Ken is sad in terms of supers, they’re all the same thing just one is better than the other two so why bother with the other two ever? Shits and giggles or style I guess. I personally quite like shin shoryuken but if I wanted to actually be proficient with Ken I’d focus on landing jinrai.
Well, there is one thing that ken’s sa2 can do that his sa3 can’t, and that’s be used as a (pretty damaging) anti air. Whilst Kuroda never won the match vs TM’s Q. You can clearly see how much sa2 changed the fight.
He’s talking about preference of Supers based on the options available to them. For instance, you’ll see quite a few Makoto players use SA1 on Ken and Ryu instead of SA2 because they prefer the options SA1 offer. Q’s usual super used against Dudley is SA1, but I use SA2 on Dudley because I like the options that it gives me better than SA1. Stuff like that.
The options SA3 give to Ken are so good that you’d really have to be trolling the opponent to wanna use his others. There are just some things in the game that are a given, even if you try to find other reasons to make the others look nice.
…I’m not even gonna bother with this…I just quoted it because of the various levels of how mindboggling it is.
Let me try to clear this up.
I tried to imagine the following situation:
Ono or some random Capcom employee said "A lot of people have been asking for rebalances for 3s, as a player, how would you try to statisfy their wishes?"
No “no changes at all” in this scenario. Imagine it is your job to rebalance 3s so naturally you try to make reasonable balances that statisfy both the player of a certain character as well as everyone else. I already said why i picked Alex, i could have randomly picked any other character but it easier to find things on characters that are lower in the tier list. This does not mean they are weak and really need changes under any circumstances, it’s just easier to find things that people want to be changed.
Of course there are people that say stuff like “Remove Genei Jin!” or “Chuns karathrow is way too good, remove it!” but i was wasn’t thinking about those guys when i thought of the changes.
That being said, let me get to your arguments.
I don’t get it.
For me it’s not about winning anything but about sharing (hopefully) reasonable arguments and having a interesting and lively discussion.
To be honest, i can’t remember every way he landed his super in that video, but i can remember a weakup super (maybe the Urien player didn’t know this works) and a anti air super which is hard to land against some characters. Also, when he canceled his parried mk into super, the other guy didn’t jump but did a move that is slower than, i think 6? frames. I have to admit that i am no expert on parry mechanics, so i can only quote and hopefully someone can explain it.
I am pretty sure i have seen YSB use SA1 in some matchups, but thats not really the point. Hugos SA3 can punish more moves than Alex SA2 and, more importantly, it can be hit confirmed after a crossup. Hugo can also do a Moonsault after a crossup and with its 2 frame startup he definately has the advantage over Alex slow Powerbombs, but what really makes Hugos SA3 way superior, in my opinion, is the crossup thing.
The wake-up super was an example of the Alex player taking good advantage of a big mistake. The AA super is hard to land against all characters because you have to cover your ass incase they actually attacked, same as with trying to AA Gigas somebody, but the point was that it’s definitely possible if you’re sharp. When he supered through his parried Flash Chop, I don’t think there was a single thing the Urien could have done to escape that except instant Headbutt or Knee Drop, but that would have taken some superb buffering and anticipation. The Urien didn’t even break from the parry frame, the Alex player’s confirm>super was THAT FAST, lol. Easy buffer.
Anyway, it was just an example of how to play around a super’s strengths and weaknesses and turn it to your favour. I think it’s actually an interesting suggestion to buff Alex’s SA1 because it’s definitely got untraditional properties that make it difficult to use well, but it’s not something I’d bother to change personally.
Louis and failfail
“Someday, maybe not today, you will see how much of an ignorant dumbshit you really are.”
-Kobe Bryant AKA 5star AKA Yi Wang
Throw supers will always have a place in the game even if they are 3 frame startup, because they change the pace of the game so significantly. It becomes much more dangerous for your opponent to stick out a move or a throw. I have to say however, that if I was to play Hugo I would use sa3 simply for it’s versatility.
Thanks for contributing, i got a quote for you too:
“Someday, maybe not today, you will see how much of an ignorant dumbshit you really are.”
-Kobe Bryant AKA 5star AKA Yi Wang
Here’s the thing. If you’re going to post about rebalancing you’re going to need to actually go into a fair amount of detail as to why you think it makes any sense. You haven’t.
You’ve said what everyone here has heard over and over. It’s already in the thread. We don’t need to hear the discussion over again. You haven’t given anyone a need to say anything but ‘l2p’. This isn’t like Remy’s counter super which is essentially useless against someone with half a brain. It has no single flaw that makes it awful it’s just not as all around versatile as SA2. That’s not a problem, it just means if you want to use SA1 you damn well better’d have a plan and understand how to use it.
If we ever see another SFIII game they probably will touch it ever so slightly but I’d rather see range changed than startup. Just so it’s a little less specific in use and has a few more setups than it does right now which are mostly defensive reactions.
Let’s talk about stun gun.
-1 stock or lower damage on Chun SA2
-Lower Damage or Longer Bar for Yun SAIII but with same duration
-Buff Sean up a bit
That’s it. Everyone else is pretty much fine.
I have yet to hear any balance suggestions or system change suggestions that would actually make the game better.
and why would you want a rebalance? The people who’ve been playing the game seriously all these years wont respect it. The general 3S communtiy wont respect it. Any major tournament worth its salt wont respect a rebalanced version if an arcade perfect port is available.
How about you get good in the current version of 3s first before you even attempt to think about rebalance
Seriously, you are labeling yourself as a scrub by asking for rebalance. or for the love of god gimme a suggestion that isnt basically “nerf this and buff that”
anything else is scrub talk.