How to tell if your Blackheart sucks

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
401

Well, when I’ve been playing the game at all lately (which hasn’t been all that much, STHD’s taken a lot of my gaming energy out of me) I’ve been using these teams with BH stuff:

Sent-A/Cable/BH. I used to use this team in tournaments a lot, although I haven’t so much in recent years since I discovered how bad it can be against MSP. I already had known it had issues with Sent/Commando teams and when MSP got thrown on the heap of bad matchups I kind of abandoned it in favor of Watts. However, I’ve been pondering whether or not I should take another look at it lately and rethink my game flow with it. I used to play it where I’d put Cable in back to preserve a DHC and play it with the idea that the DHC would probably put BH into the game later and if I wound up losing Sentinel early I’d have a more serviceable pair at the end. That may have had a lot to do with why I left the team off, because I no longer really think that’s a particularly good strategy. These days when I play it I usually use the above order, or I’ll play reverse order, and have Cable in the middle regardless. Then I play it where I’m using it more like a faux Team Scrub early, where Sentinel’s job is to use BH to zone and to restrict movement rather than to trap so much, and to try to fill the meter for Cable later (which is another element that I didn’t use before). I think the main thing that I need to do to make this really work is to start shooting people with Cable when they get hit by EITHER of the assists, which is perfectly possible but which I hadn’t been doing with Cable/BH so much before.

BH/Storm-B/Sentinel-Y. I still frequently call this the “All-Ugly Team”, because it is indeed pretty disgusting. Storm’s lightning attack assist serves as the main BH setup, although if you’re used to Commando timing it takes some getting used to – it’s faster than most other BH setups. The flip side is that it’s full screen and BH can hit an inferno off it easily into whatever super he feels like as long as he’s quick. Inferno/HOD or inferno/armageddon off of it into DHC hail are both possible and hurt a lot. Storm/BH is better than you’d think, although if BH dies outright then Sentinel’s drones by themselves are also good. We don’t need to explain Sent/BH by now, although the lightning attack assist if Storm survives works well as a good horizontal controller, sort of a faux Mag-A. I’m not sure whether Sentinel’s better used as an endgame turtle after a Storm/Sent DHC or if he’s better off trying to freestyle to fill the meter to either double DHC back to BH or triple back to Storm. Regardless, it’s a nice set of options to have for different situations.

Sent/BH/Doom. Think team Clockw0rk except with BH taking Strider’s place. This team is better than it looks and about as old school as it gets, but I’m not entirely sold on it. OTOH, Doom makes Sentinel’s position arguably better than the other two teams above do, because he’s an excellent interdictor against the rush. I’m not fond of BH’s situation on point in this team though; Sent-A helps a bit for setups but BH likes having the drones around for interdiction more than he likes Doom. BH/Doom is better than you’d think but… eh.

BH/Doom/Commando. This one is another case where you take an old school Strider team and put BH into Strider’s place. BH is way, way more powerful on this team than he is on the previous one, enough that I think it’s just about worth it. You don’t have to execute nearly as well with this team as you do with Strider/Doom/Commando to win, although you’re still going to need to learn how to get Doom to protect himself. Standing photon charges are a lot better than people realize for space control, I think, and Doom can be deceptively good in ambush rushes. However… yeah, this team’s in trouble if BH doesn’t kill most of the opposition by himself. However, if you’re up against an opponent who doesn’t match up well with BH, this might well be the best team you could pick against them, because he’ll likely wipe out the whole team by himself. I’m finding myself thinking I ought to use this team early in tourneys for that reason alone.

And, of course, BH/Sent/Commando… no secrets there.

402

I dunno if anyone said anything about Bh/Storm/Commando, i see a bunch of other teams since i didn’t read too far back really, any suggestions for that team since i use them alot?

403

if you want to mess around with bh/storm-g, try this:

call storm-g, then do inferno. If they try to hit you after blocking inferno, they get hit by storm-g then you combo into inferno xx hod. It’s dumb, but amazingly annoying.
If they block a sequence of (call storm-g, inferno, inferno xx hod), then just call storm-g as you recover and repeat lol.

When you have Storm on point, call BH assist , then do storm’s hcb+k. then do qcf+lk xx hailstorm.
As you recover from hail storm, call BH assist and repeat. The best part is that if they get hit by hcb+k or BH assist, you basically get a free hcb+k again vs. most characters as they are still in the air before your next hcb+k comes out (so a lot of characters have a forced block). Then by the time they land, you have BH assist again lol.

Dumb, yes. Full of holes, yes. But fun to use on chumps or people who’ve never seen these patterns before hahaha

404

i normally just go around being annoying as always tossin the demons on them, and callin commando normally, but i keep storm on point with my team so once i knock them up into the air combo into the lightning super i normally geddon and maybe pending on the health of the character captain sword, it hurts like hell too lol. other then that i keep my game play pretty simple at first and watch how they react to me, then try to just go around and counter, switch shit up, if they saw me usin commando like or callin storm or bh in at certain points and they thinkin im going to the next time ill switch it up but thats prob normal game play for lots of ppl. oh well, thx for the suggestions.

405

hey how’s everyone?

well, i’ve been so busy with work, school, etc. However the other day i go by chinatown fair(arcadein NYC) and guess who i see? SANFORD!!
i havent seen that guy in months, and even though he swears that he doesn’t play anymore his game is as good as ever. I must have played the guy like 40 time and no matter how close i got to beating him he would pull some shit out of his ass and beat, so fustrating. But any who i’ll give you guys some hints on what team works against his insane rushdown:

team watts: Not really good against him, no matter how many times i pushed block, and try to stay mobile he would get me into an infinite and well is over, either that or snap-out capcom then is over.

Blackheart/cable/capcom: WEll, it does so so, it’s the same problem as team watts, mainly capcom.

blackheart/cable/cyclops: this team actually did quite well against him, at least made him think twice about rushing me down recklessly.

i tried other teams but these were the only one that at least held him at bay until he defeated me countless of times

406

Hmm, I take it that he was using MSP…am I not mistaken?

Against that your best option was Team Watts and just play it safe, since the only things Magnus has to chip is Psyblade and DHC’d Hail. Storm is where the true problem lies.

BH/Cable/Cyke is actually pretty good as well…just more patience is required cause you ain’t got an abusable DHC to work with…but Magnus tends to run into Cyke when you’re counter calling…unless he’s fishing.

407

The main error that Team Watts players tend to fall into against rushdown is that they think Commando is the main thing that’s going to stop people. Relying on AAAs is actually a very bad habit that says that you’re leaving a hole somewhere, because ideally it should never really come to that. BH should be throwing enough pokes and j. fierce when he’s got space that it’s hard to get close to him, so if you actually find yourself using Commando much then they’re probably getting around everything else a little too easily. The other danger is that Commando is fairly easy to double snap if you call him at the wrong time, which is basically game over.

Sentinel’s drones should be the main defense BH uses with Watts against Magneto. Use Commando very sparingly, and combine the drones with j. fierce, and if Magneto is close enough to slide under the drones and the demons, airdash back so that Sentinel works as a robotic shield. Have the super jump and the occasional throwing of demons handy just to mix it up and not present a too-stationary target, but at some point the drones are ultimately BH’s favorite friend. If you’re going to go for AAAs defensively you’re better off with Cyclops or Cammy.

408

Honestly the only real problem i am having is mostly against mags and also now rogues for some reason im trying to normal jump fp demons on mags and rogue to kinda determine when to get a meaty lk mk assist… but other than that i have no problems mostly i been playing BH doom Guile just trying to find ways to BH without the normale people i been wokring on his poke strings and traps with doom got some pretty nice ones…

409

Vary your use ov the nj.FP demons against the likes ov Magnus (or anybody that can simply dash under you…remember that there is an instant where the demons won’t even touch them)…though you can call your AAA while doing this, Magnus can just snap you out as you’re falling and kill off your assist…

What you CAN do is try to bait out a tri-jump from Magnus either by aimlessly throwing nj demons or tossing your assist out there and df.FP him out ov his assaults (trust me when I say this works more than it actually should!!) into the AC ov your choice…

410

Oh okay i see cuz the big problem is trying to stay away from that tri dash setup with psylock and storms alos rogue with her tron mess too… so i should work on trying to bait out the tri jumps by doing nj fp demons or just standing fp demons?? also what is another good air to air combo with BH another than sjlp, mpxxair dash sjlp mp mk??? cuz i know the mk does flying screen and BH gets punished bad for that cuz he doesnt recover fast enough for anythign else? any help???

411

sorry for the late response…been dealing with my doom thread as ov late as well as other projects in the works…

the ONLY air combo you should be doing when able is sj.LP, sj.LK, ad/forward, ad.LP, ad.LK, ad.LP (the lightning bolt)…from there you can either follow up with RK demons (which forces them to block since it’s 90% safe but doesn’t combo, BUT if they get hit they’re practically screwed and opens up mad options) or just don’t do anything till you land and wait to see what they do (I tend to do this against characters that have problems rushing BH, cause upon landing I just 1 frame poke them repeatedly and then nj away blocking their AAA in the process)…sorry that was long lol…

If you get that air combo in the corner and you have certain assists (Doom AAA, Drones, Corridor) they should NEVER be able to exit that corner again…and if they do then just be patient and wait for some sort ov response…

One ov the main aspects to using BH is to be patient…unless you’re opponent is Cable or Sent…then you just rush/zone their asses down…

…so yeah, don’t EVER finish your air combos with sj.MK…any type ov move that causes forced dash FS is sure to be your last…

412

J. fierce is still good against Magneto, but you should have the drones in there a lot of the time when you do it. Do it when Magneto is further away, so that by the time he can dash forward the demons are already low enough to hit him. If you’re worried about it anyway, airdash backwards after you throw the demons. He can’t go under them at all if you do that regardless of where he is. This is one reason to use Sentinel instead of Commando with Watts as your protection, it helps set up BH’s own movements, both in using j.fierce near the ground and covering him while he goes to the air for sj. rh, and it’s very difficult to get a double snap on them while the drones are out if you don’t do anything spectacularly stupid.

If you’ve got Cyclops, j. fierce plus Cyclops is more immediately safe although controls a bit less space than the drones. Cyclops pretty much clears out the dash-under stuff altogether, and creates enough horizontal space that you get left in pretty good shape.

413

So whats the better assist for defense cyke or commando, or even offense.

414

iirc this was discussed earlier but I’ll try to reiterate in as few words as possible:

Corridor AAA
Pros:
Massive damage
Reaches the top ov the screen
Hits multiple targets in range
Sets up the RK demon inf. (double-edged sword)

Cons:
Cyke>>>CapCom on point
If you’re execution is off, harder to connect the inf. than Cyke AAA
Pixies can dash THRU the Corridor if called improperly, air dashes as well…
Not invincible during start-up…quick hits can cancel the assist

Cyke AAA
Pros:
The uppercut hits multiple targets
Easier set up into the RK demon infinite (if anyone still uses it)
Cyke>>>CapCom on point
Stuffs the shit out ov dash-in attempts
Invincible during start-up (until the bullet is shot)

Cons:
The optic bullet only hits once, so if it hits their assist you’re screwed depending on the situation.
Doesn’t reach the top ov the screen (though the optic bullet closes off a section that is usually populated by flying Sent’s and opposing BH’s.

I may have missed some stuff out, but in the end it comes down to player preference as well as team dynamic and whether you’re other char. (besides BH) can use the chosen assist to their fullest extent (such as Sent/Cap or Sent/Cyke)

415

very good points:

The only point I think you missed is that Cyclops assist and Cap. Commando assist have different lengths of time that they ‘attack.’

Since Cyclops attacks for a longer period of time (3 hits vs. capcom’s 1 hit), this gives BH a little more time to do whatever he wants than with capcom as his assist.

I see this as an advantage for Cyc because it allows BH to reposition himself (e.g., it allows bh to sj. rh directly overhead the opponent, a relatively safe spot).

It requires some adjustments for you to find bh/cyc’s rhythm if you’re used to playing bh/capcom.

416

okay. thanks.

417

I have to agree with that for the most part. I say for the most part for a reason.

If your opponent sj, and airdashes over you, or is coming down from a superjump on top of you and the drones clear, you can do the following combo. I mentioned this earlier…

Call Sentinel drones when the facing indicator arrow is about to disappear, or has disappeared, and sj up. lp, lk, airdash, lk, mp, mk, hk, [they get flying screened into the drones, and then the hk hits them while they’re stunned by the drones]. At this point, you can literally do ANYTHING you want to them.

I finally found a way that this can be useful. A Cable superjumps and drops an assist, you dash along the ground under the assist, then call Sentinel, and superjump up with an air combo attempt. If they fall for it, they’re dead.

I wonder if I can launch them, Call drones, and air combo them down onto them? I may need to experiment with this, but somehow I doubt it.

418

Iremember doing that in a match by accident…to get that off you’d have to space your hits so that they still combo but carry the opponent to that designated spot where they’ll get OTG’d by FS Drones 100% ov the time (you also have to make sure that you don’t go too high, or the drones disappear entirely). It’s better to do this off ov c.LP (call drones), c.LP sjc. ad/f ad.LP, ad.LK, ad.LK into drones…option select (but mastering that sjc off ov c.MP is kind ov a bitch).

419

The specific combo that I do to people when they superjump I have the timing down to the point that unless the opponent is cornered, it will work everytime.

I can probably make it work there too if I want. I’m kinda lazy though. My opponent doesn’t hit the ground btw, they hit the drones.

Hmm, so you did FS them into the drones off a launch combo. Interesting. I can experiment with it now.

Yeah, I do remember doing FS combos off the dmp via sj canceling.

420

Well, at some point we’re really comparing apples and oranges. The real issue here is, who’s our second character on our favored BH teams. With you, it’s Cable. With me, it’s Sentinel. In your case, I’d freely cede that you’d rather have Cyclops in back, both for BH and for Cable – when you only have one assist BH has to use, completely aside from the issue of which one Cable would rather have, you’d rather have Cyclops than Commando as that assist. Conversely, if you’ve got Sentinel’s drones to take care of controlling space and attacking over a long period of time (way better than Cyclops on both points), then when choosing an AAA as your third character you’d absolutely rather have Commando – again, not because of what Sentinel prefers but because BH himself would rather have Commando when the horizontal control issue has already been offloaded to the robot.

Or, in short, BH/Cable/Cyclops is better across the board than BH/Cable/Commando, and BH/Sentinel/Commando is better across the board than BH/Sentinel/Cyclops.