Um there is an easy way of comboing the JD. You simply launch them, sj.FP, quickly cancel into the JD. It connects if timed right and if you have storm next you can DHC into hailstorm. Also note how EASY it is to launch them b4 they even hit the ground to continue the beating.
To put it bluntly, I don’t think any of these are really litmus tests for a decent BH as opposed to one that sucks. In fact, all of them strike as primarily “style points” things that wouldn’t be terribly useful at a high level of play. This is rather contrasting to my 8 maxims, which are relatively sound and important things a BH can and should be doing at a tournament level these days, and aren’t. But, here goes…
-
With BH by himself, you can throw fierce dark thunder into HOD and, in theory, it option selects – if they block it, it guard breaks, and if they don’t, it combos. You could also potentially throw an inferno/HOD as well as a guard break. Neither is particularly Cable-safe, and the dark thunder one is extremely spacing-peculiar. With an assist, I would imagine either a launcher or a j. jab into assist could guard break, but I don’t know what you could get off of it that would do much damage – he can’t get back to the ground after the jab into assist in time to do much with most assists that are decent, and if you launch and then throw something like, say, Commando, the two of them will kick people up so high that about all you could do is pray you got an Armageddon off or get to them in the air fast enough to air combo them. Either way, it wouldn’t do much damage and isn’t terribly practical.
-
I theoretically could, but I’m not too upset about accusations that my BH “sucks” because of it. Why not? Because the main practical situation where sj. fierce is effective is to leave it sitting out over your head while you’re dropping to the ground, so that people going over the top can’t follow you down and attack. (Those of you who think Sentinel just needs to wait until BH lands to own him… think again. This is pretty easy to hit inferno/HOD off of whether the sj. fp hits or not… either stop flying or die.) However, for obvious reasons, that’s not real conducive to starting an infinite. Definitely not much of a “suckage” test.
-
Most of the half practical uses I could think of for it, I don’t run into situations where I need it. I’m sure as hell not going to do it on Magneto or Storm. I could see using it to go under a Sentinel who throws fierce/drones without doing anything to keep you locked down between, but super jumping over it often gets you a bit of damage, whereas all the dash gets you is closer and not in time to do anything. I’ve seen it used to go under Doom’s photon charges but these days I would prefer to normal jump and get them in Commando reach quickly; if you don’t have Commando I guess you’d be stuck having to ground dash and hope for the best. Going under Cable’s gunfire usually gets you hit by Commando, in my experience, so I’ll leave that one out as an answer; the others aren’t good enough that BH can’t do it another way better.
-
I’ll do you one better… if I hit you air-to-air with rh. demons, I’ll DHC you. If you’re not Sentinel, you’re probably going to die outright; if you are, you’re just going to be hurt pretty damn bad. Either way, my Sentinel’s going to be on point with BH and Commando assists behind him (only his two favorite assists in the entire game) and in possession of what will almost certainly be a pretty damn solid lead. I like that situation better than what an infinite’s going to get me even if they don’t bounce just a little wrong somewhere.
In general, I’m capable of doing some of these things but I don’t consider any of them to be particularly crucial to solid BH play. In two of the cases, you’re being specific enough in what you’re calling for BH to do that you’re not allowing for him doing something else that’s even more effective than your prescription, and in the other two cases you’re not really calling for anything that’s terribly practical. In short, I don’t do any of these in actual tournament matches and I don’t feel the slightest bit inadequate for any of them.
I really don’t care for Cyclops over Commando as the AAA of choice, either. Every practical situation where you can get an infinite with or without Cyclops, you can get a DHC with Commando. Commando keeps Sentinels zoned away from over your head when you don’t have the space to do a sj. fp, and keeps them far enough out that throwing out an inferno/HOD will give them a rather unhappy reminder of the dangers of flying. Probably leads to a DHC there, too, since Sentinel drops like such a brick that following up with a HSF is pretty easy. And if you want much of a shot of zoning off Cable, you pretty much need Commando. I don’t terribly hate BH/Cable/Cyclops as a team, but when I’m using this team I usually go with Cable/BH/Commando, in that order. I might try toying with Cyclops again experimentally, but I don’t figure I’m going to regain a great deal of love for him on BH’s behalf.
Simple pros of Cyclops over Commando: can go through stuff like Tron and Doom-B, has a bit more horizontal reach, more block stun. Cons: Sentinel-Y goes through Tron and Doom-B also and has more horizontal reach than Cyclops and interferes for far longer, and Commando has more practical vertical reach and better ability to punish assists. Oh yeah, and even if you have Sentinel behind you, many of the DHCs that work with BH/Sent/Commando don’t work with BH/Sent/Cyclops. It’s got a few other ones that do work, but they’re either rollable or they require Cyclops to be in the middle. Sent-Y and Cyclops are kind of redundant in their horizontal-control functions, too… plus Sentinel would much rather have Commando.
That’s about all I’ve got to say for now.
EDIT: Not quite. Comboing into ground JD also isn’t a very good DHC setup to anything but Storm, IMO… for Sentinel the stream of demons is random enough that it often kicks them up just high enough to miss the first set of drones and drop before the second one gets there. That… sucks.
Blackheart doesn’t have a real consistent guard break. Fierce Dark Thunder xx HOD only works on practice dummies. I’ve gotten jump fierce, HOD to guardbreak randomly, but you have to time it so all three demons are blocked before they get to the floor. There’s the standby jump jab, land and launch, which is of course defused by just taking the hit.
The better question is, WHY connect your infinite from J.FP demons? Actually, why infinite at all?
Corner escape and cross-ups. Whee.
Is the infinite the focus of your play? If the answer to this question is “Yes”, you probably have a shitty Blackheart.
I came up with this combo. It’s not very consistent because of the random nature of Judgement Day.
Re: Re: How to tell if your Blackheart sucks…
I can’t say that I disagree with a whole lot of anything Dasrik said there. IMO, BH should stay away from the infinite by and large. If you hit an air-to-air rh, you’re better off comboing it into something else that’s going to do much more damage for a lot less effort than you are bothering with the infinite, IMO. About the only way the infinite’s going to get you very far is, again, if you’ve got Cable behind you.
Go back to my original third question: do your opponents usually survive your first solid hit with BH? If you’re building your team around infinites and BH/Storm, you’re going to be answering “yes” to this question. BH/Storm sort of gets you out of jail, but from the stuff you’ve been posting I’m suspecting strongly that you’re a little too hung up on style points and big-number combos and not paying enough attention to sound play.
My best, most consistent, most easily applied (to most chars) DHC with BH will get you about 14-17 hits depending on how the HSF bounces. I’m going to be doing around 130 points of damage with that. The infinite, even if you manage not to screw it up, isn’t going to get you more than about 60-70. DHC’ing with JD makes for a fair number of style points, but unless I’m doing an air JD on a whiffed AHVB or HSF it’s not usually that practical. There are no useful combos that involve BH actually launching someone as part of it where you can’t do a lot more damage for a lot less trouble and randomness some other way.
I suspect mightily that BHKing is kind of posing here.
I always thought Blackeart sucked until I played a VERY GOOD Blackheart player today. I take back anything bad I might’ve said about him,I apologize to the blackheart players, he’s more annoying then cable -_-.
Okay I’d have to say that I’m luaghing my ass of after hearing your replies. First off I have to ask exactly how you’re cancelling into HSF if you can keep the combo going after it’s over b/c I have no trouble whatso ever doing it. As for your comments on the GB’s with blackheart, I was talking about GB’s that put the opponent into the infinite. and I know one using BH with a cyclops OR commando assist that you can’t get out of. It doesn’t matter if you push block, get hit, or try to attack on your way in. Now if you think that I’m one of those people who relies on the infinite as a key to my game you’re fucking stupid. I merely speak the way I do about it b/c if you can’t even do the things I said about the infinite you probably aren’t good enough to do anything with him. It’s all about timing and reading your opponent. And just for the record if you think I let someone live after connecting anything that goes into the infinite you’re fucking crazy. EVEN with a BH/storm team the person is dead. And if you think that connecting the JD from a sj after a luacher than I say you need to just worrk on your timing b/c I do it without any trouble whatsoever. And I almost always do that version if I have storm next b/c that’s the best way to cancel into her hailstorm b/c you can easily luanch them b4 they can even hit the ground continuing the combo using cross-ups or w/e else you can think of even thought it usually isn’t necessary to even go that far to kill them. ALSO if you do the infinite that I do you can easily tag in any character you want at anytime during it to set them up for the big damage/killer combos (this means sent). One last thing if you think I’m posing I’m gonna have to say I feel sorry for ya b/c you know as well as I do (or at least you should if you know BH, like I thought you did) that everything I just said is true. And if you think I’m posing I can have my friend (who’s played against the best of the best, in the west, like combofiend, David lee, Soo and lil harry potter and know’s what a good player is) post here and tell you that my BH ain’t no bitch. He’ll tell you that everything I said here is true b/c I’ve serve him up using these methods worse than the ass whoopings that the top tournament players have given him.
i just come in here and read every once in awhile when im bored and i saw this and had to ask…are you saying ur better than them? 
:rolleyes:
It’s very possible to guardbreak with those assists. Although timing’s a bitch, it works, I guess.
shrugs… I can do stuff with the infinite. I just don’t because I think it sucks.
Okay, if I ever watch you play I want to see you do it 5 times out of 5.
If you tag in Sentinel, your “killer combo” is going to do one pixel of damage per hit, because rh demon combos don’t reset until the opponent touches the ground.
Ask those players about my Blackheart, then.
I’m not sure what you’re asking here, whether it’s about the specifics of the DHCs to HSF I’m using (and if so, which one… I have about four or five of them that work), whether I’m comboing other stuff after HSF, or what. I’m not real concerned with whether you have trouble doing something or another. The point of this thread is to illustrate ways to play BH that are being overlooked by most BH players, on a tactical level. I’m not here to try to rack up style points. I have such a reputation for being an un-flashy player that the phrase “StiltMan MSP”, in and of itself, tends to provoke laughter.
Then explain it in exact detail in a way that can be independently verified. Because, quite frankly, I’ll believe this when I see it and not before. It would be nice to know it, if it really exists. Hell, I’d be interested in most anything with Commando that’s going to lead to an infinite anywhere other than right next to the corner that works under practical circumstances.
Uh… yeah.
I finished in the top 25 at Evolution last year with Sent-A/Cable/BH and Cable/BH/Commando as my teams. I fairly regularly finish in the top 5 in Seattle’s biggest tournaments, using BH teams more often than not. In the last one I went to, I used BH/Sent/Commando, and my BH stared down no less a Magneto than Rodolfo’s cold, even though my most lethal BH stuff that I’ve come up with was little better than experimental at the time. I’ve won two other tournaments around the NW outright with that same team in the last month and a half.
I am utterly unaware of any tournament credentials on your part at all, much less anything on this kind of level. I’m not outright saying that you suck, I’m merely saying that I’m hearing a lot of stuff that sounds more like effort to score style points than it does sound tournament tactics.
Okay… I can envision that a full blown infinite into whatever super DHC hail will probably kill someone more often than not. OTOH, the team involved is going to be BH/Storm/Cyclops. The DHCs and the point chars involved have some merits, but the assist scheme is fugly. Storm and BH only have limited use for one another’s assists, plus there’s the issue of BH/Clops vs. BH/Commando… I tend to much prefer Commando, myself.
I’d probably go for Cyclops into a sj. rh into inferno/armageddon DHC hail myself.
Or Cable… which will be more damaging after the infinite has scaled stuff down. For Sentinel it’d be better to just do the DHC early.
Well, once again, it bears asking… who are you and what the hell are your actual tournament credentials, if any? The only California BHs I’ve much heard of are Viscant in his BH/Storm/Sentinel experiments, a bit of JoeZaza (who also took up BH/Storm/Sentinel at my suggestion for a while), Dasrik, and Jaminis. If you’re such a hot BH, point me at a tournament where you’ve done anything at all to back up all this talk.
OK, I failed all those tests. I’m a big mvc2 scrub, so just give me the basics with blackheart? What should I be going for, infinites, hypercombos/DHCS, chip damage, runaway? SJ demons, airdash, demons with assists is about all I do right now.
sigh, you guys make too many assumptions. Okay first off I NEVER said I was better than any of the tournament players mention above. But I’ll tell you this, if you are thinking that a player is better than another simply b/c he does tournament you have no common sense. there are people out there that are increbibly skilled in different sports and games that noone ever finds out about them b/c they can’t showcase there talents. Unfortunately I am too busy to participate in tournaments which tend to be on the weekends b/c I do school, work, and church full time. This is the reason why I didn’t make it to the evo tournament. I was at church all day sunday and almost all day saturday. Now I’m going to once again state that I’m not saying that I’m better than ANYBODY b/c I know someone who doesn’t understand the unique language of english will think otherwise.
I’m going to try and make it to one of these Huntington Park tournaments that they’re starting to throw every week and then you’ll get to see how I do since that’s your only method of judging a player. I seriously doubt I’ll find the time to though b/c they have them on saturdays. Plus the MTA drivers are on stirke. BTW who said that I continue the infinite all the way to the limit of the hits you can get out. I merely do it long enough to set them up for switches and DHCs (which tends to be 10 hits). from here if we’re talking about sentinel (whom I rarely bother with) I’d just switch mid combo linking a HSF into his luancher or back into blackheart, where at this point the hit damage is at 1 anyway. And proceed from there. As for my GB that’s unavoidable as long as I’m doing it right, you’ll just have to see or here about it from someone, it’s basically only applicable after killing an opponent to give you the jump on the next character.
Another thing, you said you think I’m all style? I’ll tell you right now I’m into the style points but I’m all about winning and wouldn’t jeopardize the win for an ooohhh or an aaahh. Besides, Combofiend has got style but you don’t see people saying that that’s all he is, do you. Plus he’s always one of the top rankers. Actually I think there is a hugh gap between the really good players and the so-so players and I don’t think it’s saying much to get 5th in a random tournament or even 25 an the evo tournament. That just means you ranked under the well known pros and above the so-so players. I mean come on! I give no credibility to a person just b/c they compete in tournaments. I can say I got 3rd in a tournament, but the reality is that there was only two big names players like qwuan and rodolfo and the rest were scrubs. That’s no different than bragging about getting third in a three man tournament as far as I’m concerned.
Okay having said that I will now have to clear up another assumption that I know somebody is going to make. I am not saying that you suck or that you might not be that good despite how you’ve done in past tournaments. Hell, I congradulate you, say good shit, and keep representing BH like ya do. Actually I’m laughing my ass of right now b/c you beat one of my whipping boys in the evo 2002 tournament. I wouldn’t even consider his BH to be a fourth as good as what I consider mine to be though. His name is Dindo Bernardino. (kidding about the homie ofcouse :P)
If you haven’t figured it out by reading this post I obviously scale the infinite # of hits to the characters I have and will often just go with the quick and powerful combos. I’ll go for more hits if I have storm or cable and less if I have sent. Also note that I use commando if I have storm or cable. And I’ve discoverd so many applications for cross-ups and linking into and out of the assists with BH/storm teams just so you know (especially with commando). I use commando more than any other assist so you should know that the infinite is not the key to my game. I just really like cyclops b/c I can pimp people with him and it’s fun to do the GBs with him. My matches don’t normally last longer than the 60 second mark just so you know.
One last thing (seriously this time :lol: ) I’m looking to prove myself ANYTIME cuz I know there’s a serious lack of credibility in what I say (in your eyes) b/c of my work load handicap that stops me from competing in tournaments. So if someone wants to call me out to play them I’ll tell you right now that I except the challenge. So don’t even bother posting doubting comments to me if you aren’t arranging a battle date. I personally find it sad that I have to type out this much detail in my post b/c people assume you don’t know shit. I said in my very first post that I play the same way as what stiltman describe as his style with the exception that I use GBs into the infinite and that I’ll keep the infinite going in some cases for various reasons.
Are you seriously saying that you get 6 infernos (each hitting twice) in regular matches?
If I recall the post about multiple infernos, 7 was the most anyone could do ( and only on light char). I’m seriously doubting this:confused:
yo wut up all u losers talking about suck ass blackheart(lol). this is the guy my homie aaron(blackheartking) was talking about. ive played all the “pros” they arent that good but ive played a lot of them listing in order of their skill combofiend,SIN,clockwork,duc do,david lee,soo mighty, ghengis. ive beaten all of them at least twice. after saying all that my friend aaron is really kick ass with his UNBEATABLE blackheart no joke this guy is sick with his blackheart with his blackheart and thats only after you get past his cable or storm or other person. so all ya’ll should listen to this guy he is seriously good. if u want a better or you want a tight ass blackheart or the perfect defense ask him. or if u want to get the shit whooped out of you go to one of our local arcades in so. cal. (1)video west arcade.glendale(2)the pit,on the cal state LA campus and if want some tips on magneto or sentinal come holla at me and ill help you out. peace
i didn’t say you said you were, i juss asked u buddy…nobody wanted ur gd schedule
chubroq and BHK, you’re in LA area? Come to Camelot one of these days and I’ll show you how to play BH 
I played’s blackheartking’s blackheart before at the pit. Its worst then his cable. I can handle his cable half the time, blackheart, umm, i walk away from matches sometime.
Well, looks like this excellent thread just went down the shitter.
…We should just hold a Bh tourney. And have Bh exebition vids. But if anything if Blackheart king is a west coast player , i know all those that u ahve listed too, Dirty is a wc player and if ur Bh is better than his that means Ur not all talk. But since this is online and the only way to see someones potential is thier tournament standings and the way they talk, people will doubt u.
My opinion about BhKing’s post is similar to Stilt…
It really involves the person’s style of playing of Bh and thier potential but as to if it sucks, it just depends on the other things they do.
I suck so i have no right to talk shit.
If anyone is really interested in a Bh Tourney Nationwide, I’d be more than Happy to host it. But we just gotta see where the best Location and time is.
doubt if you want. I’ve done it and friends have seen me do it. I count the delayed hit from an inferno as it’s own inferno just so you know. So you could say I only connect three (on cable). all the things I state are things you can do on the medium sized character. I’ve been in many situations where I’ve caught a runaway storm and connected more hits than that but I tend to just stop there.
you going to give me a ride there? :lol: seriously man, you’d have to come to like CSULA on a thursday (around 12:00) or MAYBE video west arcade on friday (at night) b/c those are the only times that I’m able to play nowadays with my schedule. I don’t have my license yet and camelot is just too damn far to take a bus from where I live.