At this point, I’d be happy if they buffed Deejay to his AE form.
Fighting game community just isn’t a big enough market for capcom to spend any real money on us. That being said I don’t agree with their priorities or where the money is spent. Save the money porting characters and stages if your not gonna spend what it takes to make the game function properly, and be balanced. How many of you would have bought ultra if all the new characters and stages were left out, but all that time and money was spent on honing each character properly and not half ass and half done? I would have. (We deserve the characters and stages too, but I’d sacrifice)
Capcom is all about cash grabs, “what can we do that costs us as little as possible, and makes us as much as possible.”
Answer is port in some stages and characters from xtekken, fake make a new character out of an existing model, and viola ultra is born, and Dee jay is killed (or at least badly wounded).
You are probably right, but I gotta hope they do fix something for him(revert low invincibility back to lk sobat at least!). Why else would Peter elude to knowing about Yun being so good and Deejay not finding his groove or whatever he said at the Capcom Evo panel? They have to update this game at some point regardless. Decapre’s charge time for Ultra2 and Sting were accidentally nerfed with the last “bug” patch…so they have to fix that. I’m hoping when they do we may get a surprise or two as well.
Maybe they are taking a long time because they are testing his new improved hitboxes.
Lol…who am I kidding. 
Also, If it means giving him low invincibility back…I’ll take lk sobat recovery at -4…(sheesh…you win Capcom).
The EX 2nd hit being an overhead idea would be awesome, but I can see waay too many hate messages coming may way online if they did that. People
will just complain that it’s too overpowered. (like old lk sobat…Lol).
I definitely am on board with the idea of making sobats(all of them) knockdown. Me personally, I think HK sobat should be a hard knockdown.
thinking about it…with HK sobat, maybe a hard knockdown might be too much as well.
Really nice list, someone should move it over to unity.
money list right there
I still say EX MGU and LK Sobat were crutches. Overpowered tools on an underpowered character though the tools didn’t make him competitive. If we see at least one if not two more balance patches, then I’m happy with the overall direction DJ is going (but that doesn’t mean I’m happy with his current state). It seems to me that Capcom is removing the crutches and trying to round the character out as a whole. LK Sobat made it too easy to beat lows, EX MGU was a one bar near risk free U2 combo fish since it was so hard to punish from its pushback. I’d not like to see these changes reverted. I’d like to see DJ get better as a character as a whole instead of getting his crutches again.
I’d like to see:
-St.HP launch against any air hits, on hit -2, on block -5
-Cl.HP cancellable on 2nd hit, hits crouching, on hit -2, on block -5
-St.HK startup at least 9, on hit -2, on block -5
-St.MK hit twice from further out
-U1 travel further
-U2 animation end sooner
-All Sobat specials, Ultra 1, and Super have pursuit property on grounded opponents, on hit or on block
-EX Air Slasher recovery reduced to 42
-Knee Shot have more active frames
-Focus Attack have more range
-Throw have more range
His neutral game should be stronger and I think these changes would help. That’s not to say he couldn’t use additional changes, but I think improving his normals, tweaking his ultras, ‘fixing’ his knee shot, and improving his focus, throw, and specials would help in the neutral.
I stopped reading after the second sentence.
Lol, it was the right decision, complete nonsense.
Im really not sure why you keep referring to lk sobat as a crutch and too good…
Its a charge special for starters, you can’t just throw it out there.
Not to mention that there are a bunch of chars that have normals with similar (and better) properties than it, and are rewarded with more too (rose hop kick for example)
Its very strange to me. Like if that move is overpowered what is bison’s lk scissors? Or even shoto lk tatsus (look at the frame data they are pretty similar to ae2012 lk sobat frame-wise, it just hits higher)
Do you feel Dan’s dankicks are crutches as well? Or Sagat’s tiger knee?
Maybe Capcom should nerf Jaguar kicks because it’s a nooby crutch. It goes over lows and stuff, and safe. While we at it, nerf axe kicks and all over heads that go over lows.
Much of my belief that the LK sobat and EX MGU being a crutch surrounds what type of character DJ is supposed to be on paper – a jack of all trades, a master of none.
Spaced correctly, Sagat’s knee can be safe, but it has a significantly longer recovery time than LK Sobat and is more punishable when spaced poorly. I know you can get a safe jump in off of LK Sobat with Knee Shot, I’m not sure if Tiger Knee gives Sagat a safe jump for continued pressure. The normal attacks from Rose and Guile that avoid lows do not break focus attacks and knock down on their own, though they can be linked from. The shoto tatsu whiffs on crouching and the light variant is highly punishable on block. These are all pressure tools that exist on characters that specialize in zoning so they are not as good as pressure tools on pressure centric characters (Dan, Bison).
Dan’s dankicks have a much longer startup and are one of the few ways the character can actually get inside, considering the remainder of his arsenal is pretty gimpy. Dan is actually a pretty good example of a character who is designed around a crutch and the rest of his toolset suffers as a result. I don’t want the Dan treatment for DJ, having one solid tool that I have to continually abuse and the rest be subpar. DJ is not a focused character. DJ’s not pressure, mixup, or zoning, strictly speaking. Dan is mostly pressure related so in that context it makes sense for him to have a very focused toolset. For DJ, it doesn’t.
Bison’s LK scissors is in my opinion the closest comparison, but this is another character who represents an archetype of pressure as opposed to a well rounded character like DJ. Bison’s Scissors is his best and most character defining move and it is so for a reason. If DJ was a pressure centric character and had a worse projectile and worse anti air capabilities, then maybe having an abusable LK sobat be at the center of his entire character design would be acceptable. Bison’s main method of play is pushing someone to the corner with good priority pokes and then pressuring them relentlessly with the scissor kick. Any tool that falls outside of that style of play is not nearly as good, such as strong AA capabilities, solid damage, or a good wakeup game. They did nerf his LK scissors a bit in Ultra, and in return gave him some better AA and damage capability.
So for some of those focused archetype characters – yes, I believe they are crutches. Bison without his scissor kick would be pretty awful. Dan without his dankicks would be pretty awful. But Guile, Rose, Shotos, and Sagat would be able to get by without their low invul moves. They would not be better off without them but it wouldn’t break their core game because that game does not revolve around pressure, it revolves around strong zoning with normals and fireballs. DJ should not be “broken” without his LK Sobat. Obviously the tool is sorely missed for a reason and other changes need to be made to bring him up to speed with the rest of the cast, but he is not a character whose execution revolves solely around a specific singular tool like other more focused characters.
I do think DJ’s LK Sobat’s low invulnerability and EX MGU’s safe on block pushback were a crutch and as a result the rest of his toolset suffered. Because he is not an archetype character, having a focused toolset like that was only a hindrance to him becoming a viable character. I am happy to be getting rid of overly focused tools within his toolset so that they can (hopefully) buff the remaining tools available to him. Capcom has been trying to jam a square peg (focused, lopsided toolset) into a round hole (well rounded, non-archetype character design) with DJ and his old LK Sobat and EX MGU. It cannot work. Now they are going in a direction where they are shaving the lopsided toolset away. Unfortunately they were overly cautious with the first rendition of Ultra’s character changes and the buffs DJ received in exchange were not enough for what was traded away.
Maybe you abused it and for you it was a crutch. For the rest of us it was a tool used to prevent getting lamed out by thoughtless pressure, and to beat lows when playing footsies. Never did I feel it was my only solid move and I had to abuse it to win, but I did use it to Punish players whose footsies/pressure were stale and predictable to score a knockdown. And to counter empty jump low attacks on wakeup.
Ryu’s cr. Mk is as good as his shoryu now on my wakeup it feels. At least before characters had to take some risks against Dee jay, now they have too many easy and free options. Personally I don’t think removing the throw invulnerability was justified let alone this.
Now our crutch is holding down back, I know I sure abuse block now, that seem fair?
Not even gonna touch on the ex mgu subject, to think that is or was a crutch in my mind is just crazy.
Yeah referring to LK Sobat as a tool that would be better suited to a more focused archetype is very strange to me. Removing low crush makes the move pretty redundant, especially if you consider that he has his fireball. You could might as well say you can just remove his sobat altogether and make him use his fireball instead. I argue that this does the opposite and makes DeeJay a more specialized character than before (his general gameplan would stray closer to guile’s)
Im of the opinion that all his specials were absolutely fine in AE2012 (outside of them being exploitable on wakeup), and that it was his heavy normals that needed to be looked at.
Just some retweaking of his heavy normals would solve the majority of his problems (ranged footsies, anti-air deadzones, overall damage output), and they don’t overlap with changes to LK Sobat, wheras more changes to his closer ranged pokes to make up for “relying” on LK sobat would. He would also lose all identity as a character.
Who in the blue hell abuses ex mgu and lk sobat? How can you abuse it? Fischb, you are sounding like Capcom Unity again.
Ex MGU still gets stuffed by meaties, it hardly has invincibility and requires down charge. So how can it be abused? How is it a crutch?
Lk sobat get stuffed by high normals, specials, free to neutral jumps, it isn’t that great of a focus breaker and requires back charge. How can you abuse the move?
Can somebody please show me how to abuse DJ’s specials?
Totally this. I didn’t want to chime in on this cause I really don’t like ganging up on people(unless I have too…Lol)…especially new heads trying to learn the same beloved characters I play, but Fischbs…you’re making it REALLY hard not to.
Honestly, like Da Knut and Threi and so many others have said…that you,as a Deejay player, find both old lk sobat and Ex MG overpowering moves to justify nerfing them to where they are is just crazy. I think you’re honestly reaching just to be contrary at this point…like way back when you and the new happy Deejay’s were basically insinuating, at least to me, that Deejay needed these nerfs to be balanced over in the low crush thread. Outside of you, NO ONE on these boards as a Deejay player believes these moves were crutches to the effect that you do…and they most definitely shouldn’t have been nerfed.
Tell me…if I’m playing a lower level Ryu player who keeps trying to spam cr mk fireball over and over again, and I catch on to it, if I’m 2012 Deejay or before, why wouldn’t I use lk sobat to go over the low and make him do something else? If he doesn’t learn and keeps doing it, how is it my fault if I punish him repeatedly with my lk sobat? It is/was supposed to work this way. It was designed to do this very thing.
It’s only a crutch if you don’t adapt to the character you’re fighting against and keep doing it in a obvious fashion…like players spamming focus all the time. That’s bad habits as a player imo.
I’m not going to throw too many random lk sobat’s vs Zangeif or poke-happy Vega. You’d be foolish if you did. But shotos…hell yes I am in 2012 or earlier. Especially if the player is obviously fishing for low
forward fireball all the time.
Fighting shotos has gotten very difficult now.
LK sobat -3 for too big of a cost.
A big problem with Deejay is making reads and not being able to do anything about it. LK sobat at least stopped the midrange poor footsies.
Now i’m getting body by hazanshu’s by chun because i can’t just sobat them. EX MGU timed incorrectly gets blown.
If those moves were a crutch to you then you should try playing other characters. It’s the best way to show how weak deejay is all around.
Don’t claim to know Deejay’s archetype. He’s been changed in ways that nobody who’s been here long enough can decipher.
LK Sobat was a scrub killer. I gotta deal with shitty shotos now. Once then get into their cr. mk range i am almost better off blocking or doing a random knee shot.
It also sucks as an armor breaker. Been hit out too many times. Miss the airborne property.
A charge move can be good because it’s not something you can constantly abuse.
also fuck Jaguar Kicks, move is stupid. Frame data is misleading as hell.