How to handle Rushdown

Hey guys,

I have a simple question, how do you handle rush down? To give you some background, I purchased a PS3 and SG a few days ago and I’ve been doing online matches quite a bit and I’ve run into some crazy players that give me nightmares, specifically Filia and Valentine players… I have a pretty strong background in fighting games; SF3, GG and Mk primarily, but I find that SG is totally its own game. The combo system is bonkers and sometimes I find myself at a loss.

I was playing against a guy yesterday who was running Val/Fort and he did a 90 hit untechable combo on me from mid screen. Granted, due to scaling the como started doing nil damage at a certain point, it was still damage. I did about 10 games with this guy and the same dance just kept playing out. How does one handle this? I feel like if I make a single wrong move, I end up eating a 25%-50% combo that I can’t tech out of and land right where they want me everytime so that they can begin the process anew.

Typically I’ll see a team composition consisting of Parasoul/XX, whereas “xx” is any Rush down character from Filia, Valentine or Fortune. They usually try and bait some air from me and pop the 27 + HK assist from parasoul and combo away.I try to use push blocking, but it’s like they’re just always on me and what’s worse is that they’re always able to predict when I’ll try and do an AA assist, (my team is Para, cere) and they make me pay with a huge combo that I can’t do anything about. I realize that I’ve only had this game for a day or two and It could just be that I need to get “used to the water” so to speak, but I thought i’d ask a trusted gaming community about my problem and perhaps get some help.

Tl;dr How does one handle a rushdown character backed up with 27 + HK parasoul napalm pillar assist?

Ask yourself how you get hit in the first place? Was it a standard jump in? Crossup? High low mixup? Did you just get hit randomly? It can be hard when you are playing and concentrating, if you can record then try that, but otherwise when you get in a 90 hit combo, use that time to reflect on what you did wrong and what the opponent did to get that first hit.

While you are in that same combo, think about your opponents options. If they are good they’ll finish their combo. If they are really good they’ll go for a safe reset and try to kill you. Learning characters resets and how to defend against them just takes grinding out and getting hit by them, but don’t be afraid to experiment for ways out of situations. If you get caught in a restand, high/low mixup, try holding up to see what happens. Maybe the mixup is slow enough that you can jump out. Hey, you just got another option out of there.

Sometimes you just need to learn how to block correctly. Blocking correctly and not panicking and pressing buttons as soon as you are out of blockstun can get you out of a lot of situations. It’s required if you are fighting painwheel. Ms Fortune will force you to block as well.

This is all rather vague advice, sorry about that, but its hard to cater to your needs. It’s really up to you to find out the holes in YOUR game and how to improve.

If you are going for an AA assist, you shouldn’t be getting comboed if they block it. Throw out your assist and continue to block. If it hits then dash up and go for an OTG. If it gets blocked then stay blocking. More than likely they will start hitting your assist. The best thing you can do is wait until you get an oppotunity to free hit them away from your assist; usually when they take to the air. The absolute WORST thing you could do is throw out something prematurely and get hit along with your assist.

Stickystaines,

I appreciate the response. I don’t consider your advice to be vagary at all :).

I will take a more introspective approach to how I play this game. I’m definitely weak on my blocking. I tend to get hit with low strings and then a suprise overhead to open me up. I find that Valentine is really good at getting those overheads off due to her floating backstep/dash, I really have to watch for that. Admittedly, a lot of my sucking just stems from a lack of understanding the game, given that I just got this game (and my ps3 for that matter) yesterday.

Also, I do tend to find myself whiffing grabs and stuff a lot because I panic input when valentine lands from a ridiculous air pressure string.

Again, appreciate the response.

The most basic thing is to learn how to defend against simple mixups. Replaying the mixup defense tutorial whenever you’re in a slump helps. the next step however is learning the other character’s mixup/overhead options so you know how to defend against those.

Chicken guard or use double assist. But if you’ve only been playing for two days, I’d expect you would be getting beat.

Is there some sort of secret to push blocking? By that I mean, is there a way to make it more efficient? Timing it better, hitting more buttons for different spacing etc? Seems like there’s something I’m missing, it’s just not all that effective. Of course, it’s probably by design knowing Mike Z; I’m just wondering since there’s no in-game tutorial on it.

Blacksonic21, What’s chicken guard?

and Pobega, i’ve been wondering the game thing. I find that many times if you push block they just come right back in and begin the same pressure string again. However, it does leave you some room to punish them if they get THAT predictable with their approach.

well, take anyones advice with a grain of salt. not that im attacking stickys advice as it is very sound. im basically attacking the advice i give as this game isnt figured out yet so, any advice is suspect:

NEUTRAL GAME:

this is the biggest problem and that thing that anyone has to learn in order to be good at any “good” fighting game.
neutral game i basically define as that part of the game where neither character has any kind of positional advantage such as knockdown, being at plus or minus frames etc. the round starts at neutral.

anywho, learning neutral is key. learning that there are mixups in neutral, how to apply them, what they are, how to defend against them, how to read them, how to keep yourself out of easy to beat patterns etc etc.

for instance im a painwheel player. painwheels neutral is both ridiculously good and not so great at the same time. its ridiculously good because painwheel has access to fly for harrassing other characters from high in the air and using that as a way in. its not so great because painwheels ground options are somewhat lackluster compared to your typical rushdown character… this basically means that painwheel NEEDS to fly in order to maximize her strengths. this makes her an obvious character. however to keep this on topic the reason why i mention tis is so that you can understand that there is something that painwheel is going to be generally always looking for and that is… to take to the skies.

this is why gtfo assists AT THIS POINT seem to be mandatory for her… they clear space for her to get into the air. even if the assist wiffs she still gets into the air… and once there shes REALLY good. Without having that it can be very hard for her to get to that position since she doesnt really have any gtfo moves and flights startup is slow.

now, once in the air she has amazing tools and this is where the neutral game mixups really start to come in:

if im above my opponent i can choose to come down with j.mk for a direct, high priority attack that puts me in the opponents face with frame advantage, that attack also doubles as a hitconfirm. now im not going to go into all the theoretical mixups i could do here… they are vast. ill simply talk about the j.mk itself, if i do it right when i get into range, im being predictable, my opponent can anticipate this and try and air to air me. they can also call out an AA assist to hit me, or try and airthrow me… etc etc… basically they have counters. so instead of just doing j.mk as soon as i can i may want to jiggle back in forth in the air while im flying, so that i can try and bait there AA assist or jump attack after all if they wiff a jump attack on me then i can come in easily as they are landing.

bla bla. the point is that your opponent will probably have neutral game mixups such as this that have to do with air dashing/not air dashing… using rushdown moves that have armor, baiting by double jumping backwards etc that you will have to see and know how to exploit if you can read patterns well and punish them for. its really hard in a game like this cause of the myriad of options that an opponent has at there disposal… but there is one caveat to that:

SINCE THERE ARE SO MANY OPTIONS AND SO VARIED, THE OPPONENT WILL LIKELY DISTILL THOSE OPTIONS INTO A SELECT FEW SO THAT THEY CAN MORE EASILY CONTROL EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

theres probably a better way to say what i just said… i hope you get what im saying, which is basically that even though your opponent has perhaps hundreds of ways to mix you up in neutral and probably just as more to mix you up on the ground/during resets… they will probably stick to a few tried and true patterns… learn them and you will have a MUCH easier time defending against them and knowing how to attack them.

the better the player usually means that they have more practiced patters to go to, or they knwo a shitload of defensive patterns upon which to rely or a combination of the two.

anywho, ive written way to much… probably to no avail. so ill just leave you with the most obvious ways to react to rushdown:

chicken block (jump backwards) this gets you away from high/throw mixups almost completely and it avoids slower low mixups… its the best “overall” defense in the game.

call invincible AA assist (primarily use this as a way of dealing with very obviously TIMED jumpins) unfortunately these all come 2 frames of hittability on the startup of them so they arent exactly braindead gtfo maoves and have can definitely be stuffed in startup by meaty jumps and if your assist decides to come out in the middle of an opponents ground chain (which means that you guessed wrong/didnt know how to properly use your assist/timed your assist wrong) < when this happens you need to KNOW which of those 3 it was so that you make the mistake less or you will be doomed to repeat it (this is once again, just pattern recognition)

how to deal with someone that dashed in against you and put you into grounded string that would have hit your assist if you had called it? call the assist then PUSHBLOCK YOUR OPPONENT. this kind of requires decent anticipation though. note that this can also apply to using your assist as an AA… its what mike z does when he calls out cerebellas command grab assist then pushblocks his jumping opponent…they get push blocked INTO cerebellas grab… smart stuff but you dont need a grab assist to make use of the pattern.

anywho… thats ALOT to take in, and chances are that you already know most of that, but its always good for someone to say obvious things just to bring them more to light. also, just knowing any of this wont make you any better, its actually going out and using these things in your game at the right time that will make you better, and that only comes with practice against people.

and as i said at the beginning of this wall of text… take anything i say with a grain of salt. use only what you find useable or understand, trash everything else.

good luck :slight_smile:

-dime

Chicken guard is the art of using air block to be able to block both lows, highs and mids at the same time.

The key is to know which moves to push block and which to not push block. The tutorial covered the basics of it. It’s pretty essential that you learn to push block. You will only really learn by playing the matchups. Remember you are in longer hitstun after pushblock.

Know which characters have access to grounded overheads (Ex. Parasoul’s Back+HK). Also which have really quick corssups/overheads (Ex. Filia’s Airdash - J.MP). For the most part, block low when they are on the ground and high when they are in the air.

Learn how to not get cornered. If you are already in the corner, it’s too late. Try to think in advance how to avoid being put in a bad spot.

Just Do this…

wait wut?

Generally the best bet is avoiding the situation in the first place. Usually someone is rushing you down because you’re not making them respect your own area of the screen. So work on space control and screen awareness, don’t let yourself get cornered, and learn to use your pokes to control the screen and keep the opponent in check and eventually everything else falls into place. Usually something else has to go wrong before you do get rushed down.

Once someone is on top of you though, you just need to watch for throw attempts (stupid hard in this game, I think it’s better to just avoid them then to try and tech since the whiff animation is huge anyway and the tech window is really small) and then look for certain single hit moves that the opponent can’t cancel into some mobility option, push block that and then get some breathing room, call an assist, or go back to poking.

If you’re being hit, they’re probably going to go for a throw reset. Very few times people stop and bait on the first reset attempt so if you have something invincible, you can use it to beat out whatever they’re doing. If they’re smart enough to bait, then you already have them where you want them because that bait is enough time for you NOT to reveral and instead regain your own momentum. It all happens really fast and I still have trouble with it myself, but that’s the gist of it.

Don’t bother too much with chicken blocking in this game. You won’t be able to jump while in block/hit stun or when in a blocking animation, and the first few frames of your jump you won’t be able to block at all; which usually ends up with you being punished by a full combo for chicken blocking. It’s fairly ineffective and will get you hurt more often than not. If you want to jump out of a bad situation, you’re going to have to hold neutral up.

The corner is SO good in this game. Seriously, I think this game is the worst for getting put in the corner.

Lots of great advice guys. I’ll try to absorb and implement it all in due time.

Dime, I never thought of neutral space in such a way, my mind is destroyed.

Yes, you need to time your push blocks pretty well in this game or else you can be put in pretty difficult situations. Throw assist setups, corner pressure and the like. You need to learn WHERE to pushblock to escape for each specific string.