you’re right, by the timing being the same i mean 8 to 9 frames. Super is always 8f i think, not 100% sure on that one. Very few situations where you’d want to “link” super though so it’s kinda moot.
You CAN hit U1 after a CH cr.mk on a crouching opponent. (youtube.com/watch?v=JikvTfSWC5I)
Has anyone experimented with using cr.mk as a meaty? I’ve been doing stuff like forward throw -> lk rush upper -> meaty cr.mk, cr.lk xx special for pressure/mindgames. It’s been met with mixed results (possibly due to me not timing it perfectly).
I’m kinda ahead of you (or rather behind you), i touched on it in my option-select article. (https://archive.supercombo.gg/discussion/comment/5589813/#Comment_5589813) it’s similar to using meaty TAP, most if not every character has an option to beat cr.mk since it has a significant amount of recovery. I list a setup for meaty cr.mk (first active frame only).
It’s nice in that it’s his most positive long range normal on hit, it’s also a plus that it hits low. +10 on CH.
I hope this hasn’t been asked before but one thing I saw another Rog player do in a mirror on me was dash into super how would this work since you already use your dash on the punch
This has been answered before (i think), but in summary: dash forward ultra: back (charge), fwd, fwd, bwd, fwd+KKK/PPP, dash back ultra: down+back, Focus attack, fwd, bwd, fwd+KKK/PPP
I’m not 100% but I think he meant dash punch into super because of “how would this work since you already use your dash on the punch”
It’s as simple as it seems just back forward for the dash punch and very quickly another back fwd so back fwd punch back forward punch.
Hopefully that’s what you mean.
Looking for info about the Makoto matchup. I play both Boxer AND Mak and find the matchup easy for Boxer, difficult for Mak. Probably 6-4.
Open my ignorant eyes! What from Mak gives Boxer the most trouble?
This is a better question for the matchup thread, BUT, i’ll say that Makoto up close with frame advantage gives Boxer the MOST problems. It’s similar to Sakura. Neither Sakura or Makoto can do anything about st.lp/cr.lk NOTHING, it takes so much effort for either of them to get in on Balrog. Similar to fighting Akuma, if Balrog never gets knocked down, or they never get in close with frame advantage, Balrog has control of the match for all intents and purposes.
Once Makoto gets in and knocks him down, she has stupid loopable offense that always leaves her positive, for example, the instant air axe-kick on his wakeup Kills all of his wakeup options and leaves her at positive frames, Balrog can’t headbutt or use ex since it breaks armor. I think she can O/S f+hk (feint) or st.mp with all those boss active frames to punish attempts to backdash etc.
Balrog has the tools to keep her out, my advice against any boxer player Makoto is to use jab as a defensive tool, she doesn’t have the tools to deal with boxer’s st.lp at range, her dash is way too far and her walk speed is way to slow.
That’s my opinion anyway.
Edit: As @Prof indicated, (an I amended) Tsurugi doesn’t break armor, but there’s a way, or at least i remember a way for her to do a meaty air axe kick that couldn’t be beat by wakeup ex and because of the absorb you didn’t actually “escape” her pressure by creating distance. etc.
Tsurugi doesn’t break armor.
Edit: ty for the post. No need to continue the discussion here. If we want to, we can in the matchup thread as you said.
Tsurugi is also negative on block, btw.
Anyway, in general what you said is mostly how I see the matchup. I do still feel boxer is advantages, though. Regaining a neutral or advantaged state for him is simply not as difficult as it is for Mak, and he wins the neutral game as well.
Makoto players often tend to favour the reset in the air - I would suggest against this, as any decent Balrog player will be able to react to the reset with an EX move to easily escape your offense then it’s back to square one for you.
Go for the knockdown instead, because as @3nigmat1c has said, it’s not easy for Balrog once Makoto is in your face.
I have two questions.
What are some setups for Balrog to tick throw your opponent? The only one I know is when your opponent is crouching and you c.lp, c.lp, then throw. I see this one a lot, but what are some other common ones?
How do top players constantly have a TAP ready to go? I always see lots of straight dash punches and then immediately a TAP comes out right after. Do they always have either PPP or KKK pressed down all the time or something?
Thanks
(1) Tick throw setups are any combo into medium dash upper on hit, it’s +2, you can almost throw immediately. Also you can do jump short on hit/block it has only a little block/hit stun. You can also do cr.hk FADC or any dash straight into FADC on BLOCK, they’re all negative (like -2) and will alow you to perform an immediate throw, frame trap series may help: SF4 Game Mechanics: Frame Traps
(2)Its possible, but more likely you may feel like the minimum time to charge a lvl1 TAP is much longer than it actually is. For example: lvl 3 focus attack, (charge TAP), bwd/fwd.dash, release TAP, U1, you don’t need a lot of time. It’s probably that more than they’re holding TAP all the time, keep in mind you can start charging TAP during block or hitstun.
Hey can you explain this a little further? I’m not sure I quite understand the concept, and it might be my lack of understanding of tick throws in general. I thought they were set ups to kind of trick your opponent into allowing you to throw during a block string, but above you say you can perform a tick throw after landing a medium rush upper. What’s the difference between that and a kara throw? Sorry if these questions are dumb- I’ve been playing Balrog for years now but I’ve never really quite gotten the tick throw and kara throw concept, lol!
Edit: OK, I just checked out the link at the bottom of the quote and found the section on tick throws. I guess I’ve done a lot of them without really knowing what they are. The medium rush upper is still a little unclear to me though. Are you saying that I can connect with a medium kick rush upper and then immediately throw my opponent afterwards? Is this contingent on how they react?
Okay, i’ll re-iterate some of the things in the article for completeness. A throw takes three frames to go active. If you throw immediately after a move that’s more than +3 on hit/block, there’s a strong chance that the throw will whiff since you can’t throw a character who’s still in hit/block stun. You can only throw a character who is in certain states (e.g. recovering from an attack on block in which they are significantly negative like if you were to block an ultra, after a crumple after focus attack or during an attack where they are not throw invincible and you are able to act etc).
Medium rush upper is +2 on HIT, so if you combo into it, if you were to throw right afterwards the throw would be active (3f) almost immediately after they have recovered from the hitstun. Unique to medium rush upper is that it puts you point-blank to the character so you are also in range to throw.
Another side to the coin to mk.ru (hit), throw is lvl 1 TAP, throw. On hit its the exact same situation as mk.ru (+2f on hit), on block it’s -2 which means that if you attempt to throw the opponent has 5f to attempt to punish that throw if they make a correct guess. That’s 2f for you to recover, and 3f for the throw to come out, the opponent can act 2f before you because lvl 1 TAP is -2 on block. In this case keep in mind that almost any normal the opponent can throw out after blocking TAP will beat your throw outright since everyone has a normal that’s at least 4f. This doesn’t take into account bad reactions or poor inputs. That’s why TAP, headbutt/ TAP, throw works (i feel).
Let me know if that helps.
Thank you, yes! I will go home and check it out later tonight. Never really thought of the advantages of using medium rush punches before.
Does anyone have a link to Rog’s plink combos and videos of them in action. Specifically st.jabx3 ,c.rh link. I’m confused by plinking in general
and need some visual help.
I don’t think there’s a rog specific pinking video, this may help:
For visual reference, what you’re looking for is the following inputs in training mode:
[st.lp]
[st.lp]
[st.lp]
[cr.hk]
[cr.mk+cr.hk]
plinking in short is where you hit the button you want (in your case cr.hk) and the same button and a lower priority button (select, lp, mp, hp, lk, mk) so that you perform the button press in two adjacent frames (helps for 1f links since you have two chances to get the input in).
A combo i usually suggest to people learning plinking with Balrog for the first time is: j.hk, cr.mk, st.lp, cr.hk . The rhythm is a bit more consistent than st.lp, st.lp, st.lp, cr.hk.
There’s a section on overlapping input priority that provides some extra background information that may be useful in rounding out the information (or not):
Let us know if this helps.
Thank you for the video and explanation, it’s exctally what I needed!
Another question is the link pr_rog does with c. Mp, ex rush upper… Plinking Mp, lp to rush upper is there a delay on the upper?
I assume you mean cr.lp, cr.mp (cr.mp, cr.lp is a link only on CH cr.mp).
cr.lp, cr.mp is a 1f link, you can hit it without plinking, but you should plink anyway. ex.ru is a cancel not a link. There’s only two links into ex.ru and that’s after cr.mk at close range (e.g. j.hk, cr.mk) and cl.hk at close range.