Dude, I’m the same way- I often play way too aggressively, or rather impatiently. And I get punished a lot for it. But when I slow things down and play the footsie game, and apply the pressure with punishes, I end up wining a lot more often. You have to remember that Balrog has some of the best normals in the game. Use him like a boxer, moving in and out of range and try to catch your opponent off guard. If you can control the spacing, keep your defense up, and apply pressure once you get in, you’ll get much better. If you have the life lead, back off and play defense, make them work to get in on you.
@chadouken! hit it on the head. I share the same opinion. Being able to be aggressive is really good i think. I feel that the higher the level of play, the less aggressive your opponent will let you be and you’ll have to fall back to a more fundamental playstyle. Don’t forget how to be aggressive though. I was never a really aggressive player and i’m even more passive now, i’m trying to figure out how to be aggressive when i need to take control of the match etc. IF you can play aggressive and not kill yourself, don’t stop until your opponent shows you that you can’t/shouldn’t and beats you.
I’m trying pretty hard to get good enough at this game to be good competition at local tournies and get togethers. I’m finding it pretty tough due to everyone being so much better than me. My Balrogs is alright but my glaring weakness is the neutral game and dealing with pressuring when I score a knock down. Is there a specific way I can practice these things? Or is it just a play a lot of people and gain experience thing?
Its really more of a experience thing. I had the same problem with rog when I started but with more experience, It should be second nature to you sooner or later. Right now I’ve reached my plateau, I’m losing consistently but I’m working every day, finding new set ups as well as applications for rog’s normals+specials and practicing at least 3 times every week. I would advise you to develop a basic gameplan and build upon as you get better. As for pressure via UKD, just build meter and maintain good positioning, don’t jump in on them unless they’re free on wakeup.
Thanks a lot man. I’ll keep that in mind and keep you updated. As it stands I placed 13th at my first tournament. Not to bad I thought.
Neutral game although “neutral” has a lot to do with your goals. I’ve recently been introduced to a new way of thinking about the neutral game and i’m in the process of integrating it into my gameplay.
But in short i’ll give you two examples:
(1) Your neutral game should have a “goal”, like by doing this i’m pushing myself towards an overall advantage for this round that’s closely tied to the matchup. Like if you’re playing Sakura, pushing her to the corner without allowing her to gain meter whilst making sure you’re not at a range where her jump fierce is at a range where you can’t jump back fierce. Like that’s putting the matchup and neutral game into one and you play around that adding in your own oki on their wakeup etc.
(2) Ryu notices you don’t have down-charge, and throws an ex fireball. You block and because he’s negative you have a “slight advantage”. Ryu says i’m going to throw another fireball after you block it to build meter because i need two bars so i can shoryuken FADC into U1. You NOW have down-charge so you hp.hb through it and either A) because you’ve put them closer to the corner, this is more successful or B) because you’re mid-screen you’re not close enough and it whiffs. Alternatively, instead of throwing another fireball since he’s REALLY close to Balrog, he does st.lk. As a Balrog you decide to check his low blocks with cr.hk since it’s your longest range poke (since you have the advantage), but st.lk shifts his hitbox so it whiffs and he punishes with ex.fb or hits your recovering hurtbox with an hp.dp. So next time this exchange happens, instead of doing a cr.hk, you do a cr.lk which looks similar and then as it recovers, you still do hp.hb.
But all that aside neutral game is much more than spacing and whiff punishing normals. It can be thought of as option-selects, like if I do this, these are his only options, and these are my counters.
Not bad at all!
I’m at my limit, I really don’t know what to do… I lose to really stupid stuff and I fail to adapt half the time. How do I calm down during losses and regain my composure?
Also the way I play rog is part of this. I can’t find it in me to sit back and be patient. I’ll be posting videos of me playing online soon so all the rog veterans can help a aspiring rog. I know rog isn’t the best character but he’s the character I like and enjoy playing the most
I absolutely know how you feel and all I can really say from personal experience is just to try and keep a cool head. Rather than raging, figure out what you’re doing wrong and why you’re losing. I know when I’m on a really bad losing streak with 'Rog, it’s usually because I’m begin way to aggressive. Like, I’m hitting buttons on their wakeup every time throwing out way too many overheads. I know you said you don’t really like being patient the whole time, but I think Balrog is so linear, you just have to be. You gotta mix up your play style according to the situation.
On a side note, I’m not sure how to feel about 'Rog’s overhead changes. I would have preferred them to come out faster. Will them being safer on block really make a difference?
Hey 3nigmat1c. Thanks for that piece of advice. I’ll try to use that mindset next time I play. Also does Balrog have any safe jumps at all and is there a thread containing this and perhaps some frame traps? And this isn’t the matchup thread, but I’m quite perplexed as to how to fight two in specific. Hakkan and Adon, as I have two locals that play these characters.
Balrog got all the safe jumps mang I’ll help you out.
Although I’ll need enigmatic to check on these because I’m not 100% sure on all of them.
Sweep > walk fwd half step > j.hk (you need to adjust the distance for different wakeup times but I’ve become very consistent with 5 frames) I would practice this a bit to get consistent.
Same thing for dash low.
Fwd Throw > dash > cr.lp > j.hk : 5 frame safe jump
Back Throw > dash > j.hk : So far this has only worked on 7 frame wake ups but I might not be doing this as intended.
Now here is where I share what I’ve learned with Balrog
I’ve learned that doing meaties has become better than safe jumping.
I only do the sweep and fwd throw safe jumps (rarely back throw) just to test if they wakeup
And I’ll only continue to safe jump if they do wakeup until they stop.
Obviously it’s good to mix it up but I’d recommend getting used to wake up timing so you can pressure them just as well on wakeup but you can be less predictable with it as you can mixup what you do.
There are safe jumps for Ultra 1 and I’m sure there is one for an unteched wakeup headbutt but for me personally building meter in most matchups was a lot more helpful and reliable.
Also another note all his safejumps were discussed in the forums so before you ask I’d recommend looking 1-3 pages back.
@TimTim mentioned most of the common ones. The automatic ones are listed on the thread linked below. Keep in mind that all (all?) of these setups will become suspect and/or useless in Ultra due to delayed wakeup. Hakan is difficult, i’ll see if i can get Geomonstah to make a post or something i can quote him in and put it on the matchup thread. Adon is a hard match, and it should be a bit easier in Ultra. I’ve got an idea and im’ going to attempt to revisit all the matchups in Ultra.
In short with Adon, you need reactions, you need to be able to identify an air jaguar kick from a grounded jaguar kick, so you can focus crump for big damage. You need to be able to react with will dives with cr.hp or Ultra when in range. You also need to have a good idea about how to whiff punish his pokes (NOT HIS FAR ST.HK). You’ll also have to be really good at blocking high and using st.mp to stop his hopping and or finding a good time to exit pressure safely. It’s a hard match in Adon’s favor. something like 6-4. Start with experience, then when you have more questions about how to handle situations, revisit the match.
I’d probably say this matchup is even if you play it correctly, I play a pretty decent Adon often at the arcades. My goal in this matchup is to be really really patient and try and get the life lead early and then downback at long range (3/4 of the screen… probably a character space away from outside his st.hk range) and wall him out (unless you have reads on the Adon’s defensive habits).
I place an emphasis on downback because with a stored charge, Balrog can whiff punish st.hk with lp dash straight, headbutt jaguar kicks (lp/mp version, hp sometimes goes too far forward and leaves you vulnerable) and cr.hp jaguar tooth on reaction (even if they do the fake versions off the wall he can’t punish the whiffed cr.hp).
Enigmatic is also correct about using st.mp… Adon cant do very much after he does more than one cr.lp/cr.lk without putting himself at risk (unless he has two bars in which case you have to guess or be good at four button teching - lp+lk+mp+mk) so jumping and trying to open you up with a crossup is a good option if you’re not ready to swat him out of the air with either a jump back hp (also beats jaguar kick attempts) or cl.mp
Also on the subject of identifying his jaguars, a quick copypasta from my notes:
**Jaguar Kicks (Grounded)
Lk jaguar is the furthest travelling and - 3 on block.
Mk jaguar is the middle distance.
HK jaguar is the vertical one.
He screams “Jaguar Kick”.
Jaguar Kicks (Airborne)
HK jaguar is the furthest travelling.
MK jaguar is the middle distance.
LK jaguar is the vertical one.
He screams “AYOOO”**
This shit is hard to differentiate (I can barely do it), especially in a heated set but IMO knowing this stuff gives you a foundation to get better at doing it and becoming a strong player.
Hi, guys. After quitting Balrog, I totally forgot that I had made this thread and was supposed to keep it updated. I’m terribly sorry, espe
Crap, my laptop crapped out on me. Anyway, continuing my post: I’m sorry, especially to 3nigmat1c for letting you work by yourself in there. I’ll update the OPs soon enough.
Anyway, the reason I’ve realized that I had completely forgot about this thread was because I was asking myself: How could Balrog become interesting again?
I got bored of Balrog and went to Makoto & Cody (after which I quit the same altogether in favor of 3S again, CvS2 & Guilty Gear).
What do you guys think? What could we do to make him more interesting? I feel like he has become a very stale character and that his changes in USFIV don’t change much, as people already know his numbers and whatnot.
What could make Balrog more interesting / less linear? And what would you trade for it?
For me personally, I’d trade being able to combo off his Light Overhead and just make it faster instead. Fast enough that people can’t stand up on it at the last possible second at least! Those Ultra buffs really do stink. Who cares if it’s safer on block if it’s just as slow? I’m still not hitting anyone with it anyway.
I actually agree with you wholeheartedly. I personally really don’t like/care about his latest changes. Light Overhead will still be mashed out of & grabbable on reaction. He needs faster startup frames to make it a viable mixup, IMO.
And don’t get me started on his U2 change. It’s still just as bad…
I’d seriously trade a few things for a better mixup game. I know he’s supposed to be consistently placed high but I can’t help but feel like he’s lacking due to his lack of viable options in mid-to-high level. He got stale and I really got bored of him after 3 versions of SFIV.
I’ve got a couple of ideas that i’ll share soon. I think we’re looking at him from a very static perspective and don’t really make a decent effort to utilize his strengths to their fullest potential.
Ultra 2 should just be reworked entirely into a one frame throw. Stun be damned, it should just do straight damage. It doesn’t even have to be as strong as 'Gief’s Ultra 1, just something to add to Balrog’s pitiful mixup game. You can’t tick into it since they can just jump away and using it for Punishes seems like a waste when you can do the same thing with Ultra 1, which I think is stronger and is generally more useful anyway.
If you can think up anything, please let us know. I seriously can’t think of any new tech myself…
The shimmy got a little better with red focus. We are now a bigger threat with 3 bars and maybe we can work something out of some frame traps with ex red focus cancels too.
Does anyone know if the improved frame advantage on lp.ds allows fadc combos?
hp.ds is the only one that gives frame advantage on FADC (on hit), because of the increased recovery. I believe lp.ds may be -1 or even on hit with the change.
Red focus is good and bad. It actually gives another way for everyone to universally beat shimmy. Shimmy lets boxers beat focus attack in the corner since it can only absorb one hit. Red Focus makes shimmy hella punishable on a good read (e.g. you cr.mp xx lp.ds). If you cancel into super it’s gravy since super breaks armor, but if not, you can get punished really hard for abusing shimmy esp in the corner.
Also if red focus is like regular focus on a cancel it doesn’t have any armor, just crumple or even frame advantage. So if your opponent presses buttons that actually hit you get CH.
(I’ll probably edit this later, opinions are off the top of my head)