I for one, seldom use hk.ST and have still never used mk.ST in a real match. It is nice to see someone that knows the value of lk.ST
It was one of my main aa before.
But you mentioned the problem yourself : it does horrible against some characters. That being because the hitbox is thin and does not extends to the feet of Claw. Meaning that any jump-in with reasonable priority would beat it. HK/LK are just the same from that point of view, the only one with a decent hitbox being the EX.
So yeah, it’s great against shotos… but I try not to rely too heavily on it 'cause of that bad priority reason… and 'cause of the charge it needs, which would prevent you from moving forward to attack.
How are you forced to guess if you block a jump in? You’re either stuck in block stun, facing frame traps (which if you’re intent on blocking you won’t fall for), dealing with another jump in (which can also be blocked), or dealing with throws, which after a couple will become predictable. The only risk you HAVE
to take is the risk of teching a throw if you have low health.
Look at it this way. Vega can not open up intelligent opponents very easily when he does not have the life lead simply because the opponent can hold down back and just tech or crouch tech throw attempts. So it’s critical that he obtains the life lead. In order to maintain the life lead he cannot lose much life, or he must deplete the opponents life with his offense. His offense is not that great unless he can open up the opponent which typically requires a moron for an opponent or the life lead. The life lead can feed into itself however there is still the possibility of a bad read or dropped combo or any other mistake that could give the opponent an offense to start with. To successfully maintain that lead you need to use damage control. This is done by not taking risks that are not in your favor, but by going the safe route playing solid, not pressing buttons, rescuing when you know or at the very least highly suspect that your reaction, is the correct action. Otherwise, you block until that’s the case. Don’t eat the combo.
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I’m OK with that.
There i don’t understand. Blocking is blocking without pressing buttons, not crouch-teching. If you crouch tech, you open yourself to frame-traps, so you eat the combo you’re talking about.
So, you’re forced to guess : will you face a throw, or will you face a frame-trap ? And each jump-in you let go will force you to guess another time.
But overall, you’re right : taking a throw is a better trade than taking a combo. IMO, I’ll add « IF that gives you the time to figure out when your opponent will try to throw you next time ». =)
The crouch tech example was a referral to the only time you are forced to guess while defending. I thought I made it pretty clear that pressing buttons when you should be blocking is bad. Sorry for not stating that somewhere above
You’re not forced to guess if you are willing to take the throw in order to force the opponent to stop their offense to take the risk to throw. Especially if they think you’re gonna crouch tech and wanna try catching you with srk FADC ultra. If you’re blocking they’ve just burned 2 meters at the worst. And you faced a risk of maybe 120 to 150 damage for the throw.
that’s why I make such a big deal about not guessing and paying attention to the opponent. You want to get to a point where you know that your opponent is going to do something… Or even better get to a point where you are actually controlling the opponent. This is simply not possible if you reduce the game down to a series of guesses.
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I think that is the point : if you « just block » sooner or later the opponent will try to throw you, and after 2 or 3 throw the moment they choose to throw will become predictable. And while learning this, damage is controlled against most non grapplers opponents. I like that concept of damage control of yours.
That is the moment where you can choose the escaping option that fits best to nail their throw. And then the victory depends of the quality of you follow-ups. =)
I must add that if there are a lot of people who have good attacking skills, there are very few who have good defense IMO.
The thing is, you’re reading our posts as if we’re saying "Just block. THERE IS NOTHING ELSE."
The reason behind this is to actually start learning other ways, you need to start with the baby steps.
Which is blocking.
Which if the OP is having THIS much trouble with crossups/jump ins, they kinda need to learn this before anything else.
Baby steps.
Yeah that’s the first step. But it goes much much deeper than a simple after 3 throws in a row you can ST to beat the throw attempt. It gets into something like he likes to throw twice then frame trap, or here comes that empty jump throw, or whatever. Every one has habits. Some are subtle, others take a long cycle to get through, others are they only always do the most damaging option. Some purple life to walk back some like to walk forward. When someone asks for help, the number 1 problem I see is that people aren’t blocking enough. Either it’s because they are taking unnecessary damage or because they aren’t taking the time to pay attention to the opponent. My intent want to troll but if the OP is going to ask a generic question, I’m going to give a generic answer. In this case block.
But I was given advice by someone I consider a pretty damn good player and it’s worked for me on almost every single problem, question or match I’ve played:
Block more
Think more
Those 2 pieces of advice really sum up the best ways to improve, regardless of skill level.
This is also why discussing matchups is pretty irrelevant. Playing as a naturally disadvantaged character, you’re going to have far more success playing against the opponent and not the character.
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The thing is, it’s what you wrote.
I don’t want to be disrespectful, Francys Pai. But if you could consider the people you’re talking to just like regular people, it would help. As surprising as it may be, most of us have advanced Claws. So personally, I see our discussions as debates and sharing of point of view between equal people.
Baby education ? No thanks, as vastly superior your teachings may be.
Now, IMO, I still consider that effectively anti-airing is superior to blocking outside of KD. Where I see know have probably made… a questionable choice is where I’ve suggested that you shoud OS your escapes/defense immediately. In other words to make guesses. Vegaman has been the one saying that blocking for a while allowed to predict the opponent’s throw.
So now my escape (ST, neutral jump, bdash, FBS etc.) will be choosen knowing the opponent, rather than an optimized guess. Actually I was already blocking a lot (most people say to me they can only throw me, nothing else gets through). But now I know i must keep blocking until I can predict the opponent (even if it’s to bjMP repeated jump-ins to come back at contact). Vegaman, thanks !
Of course. That’s why I’ve included ST amongst the escaping options. =)
I still consider it as one option among others though, would it be only 'cause of situations where one does not have charge (throw right after a jump in, after overheads, etc.). =)
I disagree. Knowing both helps a lot, but that’s only my opinion.
So you missed the other 2-3 posts that I threw up after vomiting my knowledge.
And also misinterpreted that I’m not saying that YOU need the baby steps, I’m saying that the OP needs them. Since if he’s blocking right he shouldn’t be THIS flustered about crossups and jump ins.
Still ignoring what I’ve been saying since the beginning? I left these boards before because unless you TLDR shit, people don’t read it.
Just thought I’d be nice and share what knowledge I have left before I quit FGs entirely, but I see no one wants that.
Okay.
Bye.
Then you do not realize it. I do remember (despite supposedly TL;DR it) once you said to me that « jumping in to counter another jump in wasn’t anti-air, but you see… air-to-air in fact.»
How old do you think one does need to be before figuring that out ?
You’re wrong.
Your knowledge regarding FGs is great. But it’s the way you say things that makes it can only end in flaming. All of us would be happy to share knowledge with you, not to be taught lessons classroom style. No one wants you to leave, but no one likes to sit on his pride as well.
Your choice.
Because it IS air-to-air.Anti-Air is exactly in the name.
ANTI. You don’t leave the ground.
A pet peeve of mine is misinformation. No matter how small it is.
Terms get mixed up and then it gets confusing for the parties involved. So I like things to be correct.
I usually don’t respond to posts that start on “You’re wrong.” because the term pisses me off but no, my knowledge isn’t that great, it’s why I don’t bother with my guide anymore.
If you read my guides, you would see that they’re taught IN classroom setup.
I’m TEACHING because you are LEARNING how to play the character. I’m the kind of teacher that the kids would hate. I get to the point, I don’t like dilly-dallying around and sugar-coating things.
That’s just my method. There really is nothing more to it than that.
I’m just sick of the 926593487568974 threads that can be answered in the General Q&A and people don’t bother reading.
How to deal with crossups and jump ins? Block, stop them leaving the ground, if they’re jumping in a stupid way you can Anti-Air with practically anything you set your mind to. You can Air-To-Air with just as much.
It’s really THAT simple. A lot of it is a product of learning how to block.
The first step is learning how to block jump ins and crossups and dealing with the pressure afterward because you are not always going to be able to tackle that jump when it comes at you.
The next step is learning how to anti-air. Hell, I learned how to STOP people leaving the ground first. The next is air to air.
And you know what?
I didn’t read any of this damn board to actually realize HOW to do this shit. I learned from observation, learning by doing and trial and error.
It’s one thing to read the options that you have, but to put them into practice is something else.
And the only way to do that is by DOING IT. Don’t be scared to jump at something because you don’t know how it works or what the outcome will be, you will find out when you do it. If it didn’t work? Try something else.
That’s how people learned to play this game and had the knowledge to share of this game in the first place.
You think that Thomas Edison stopped trying just because he failed at creating the lightbulb the 700 times he tried?
No, because he didn’t fail. He just figured out 700 ways how NOT to make a lightbulb.
Just like you don’t fail when you learn how to AA/Air to air or ANYTHING in this game. You just learn how to NOT DO THINGS.
Note: The number I’ve used isn’t accurate. There are so many variations of that quote the number changes with each one. The reason for it’s use is the concept that failure does not exist.
Before someone gets anal over it.
I can understand that.
Even in this thread, some asked questions without even seeing they were already answered. And took the answers without even one « thanks ». So I can understand some being mad about it.
But on their side, main Q&A/strategy threads aren’t all regularly updated. So if there are already 20 pages running… it might be disheartening.
Same here. A solid defense is a prerequisite for setting up counters. And we learn from our mistakes as much (if not more) as from our successes. But it can take a while, so sharing can speed up the process.
Now, thanks for sharing that. =)
Px3
I remember myself sliding under and dashing out of cross ups and jump ins. This can work as well. But please use his other options as Anti Airs to avoid that kind of pressure.
Block
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Instigator
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http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/538075_408817162490463_2088244554_n.jpg
I think this sums it up well
I like my shirt better.
