But the System it self can respond differently. An PC acts differently to a Xbox One Stick than an actual Xbox One.
Why? How so? I don’t imagine a PCB that is fast on a console being slow on the PC or vice-versa… The PCB is the determining factor, the way I see it.
Game Engine and even the local machine it self can cause Input lag that has nothing to do with the controller PCB.
There also how the XB1 sticks dont have working trigger buttons on Windows
But to you it’s all the same
Ha ha ha
I’m referring only to PCB input lag, not input lag derived from factors that have nothing to do with it (e.g., the port of a game being more laggy in a specific platform).
The only case where I’ve used XboxOne controllers in Windows is Brook UFB in XboxOne mode. I just tested and the trigger buttons do register along the Z Axis (Game controller properties), as they should.
I just tested Cthulhu’s MC with the 1ms firmware versus the 10ms firmware. Over 50% of the time, the 1ms firmware beats the 10ms firmware when the same button is pressed on both controllers at the same time. I have videos to demonstrate this if you need proof, and repeated 100 trials 1p vs 2p and then swapped them around.
I am starting to think you and ShinMagus here is too smart for your own good because my point just went over your head.
No one disputing a 1ms stick will beat a 10ms stick in match ups. No one disputing the actual findings.
What I am disputing is for the layman, the everyman, casuals or what ever we call them never has to worry about Polling rate.
I am also disputing how other people are interpreting these findings and then creating a witch hunt of sorts.
If you don’t see that as a issue then I have to say your both blind to the obvious.
To an extent I agree (e.g., I wouldn’t lose sleep over something 3 or 4 ms slower than the best known PCB), but I can tell you the stock VLX Kuro/Hayabusa PCB is horrifyingly laggy (as in freaking Super Mario World didn’t feel quite right; Teyah says it’s ~14.8 ms slower than the reference for PS4). I’m very pleased with my switch to the Brook UFB thanks to Jasen’s EZMOD PCB. In any case, I appreciate making sure the only reason you lose is the human factor (yourself as a player and your opponent), not hardware deficiencies.
Last quote doesn’t quite seem the same as the first three does it.
So, I have always maintained the same thing. If sticks differ by 1.45ms they will be a frame apart just under 10% of the time. If sticks differ by 11ms 66% and so on. I have never argued that this is the sole factor in determining matchups. People have won Evo with sticks that lag more.
However, I do think the information should be out there. If someone has saved up $200-$300 to buy a new stick, why shouldn’t they be able to make input lag a factor in their purchase decision.
If someone has bought a stick that turns out to lag more, why shouldn’t they know how much buying a Brook UFB is going to change things.
I feel that with increased testing/research into the area, things have improved significantly. Brook is actively trying to improve their firmware to minimise input lag. My suspicion is they’re probably close to as fast as possible at the moment. The latest Hori stick appears to have lower input lag than previous revisions. Aki released an entire new hardware just to deal with input lag.
I also think we are learning more about why different things contribute to input lag. e.g. polling rate is not something I was aware of until recently. Similarly, the reason the venom stick lags is because it will not respond to button presses less than 10ms, so irrespective of processing time or polling rates it will always be at least 10ms slower. Most other sticks will respond to 1ms long presses if it occurs during the polling window.
Did anyone know that wired DS4 controllers respond more slowly than wireless? I can find at least 5 threads on the internet where people strongly assert the wireless is slower, but on testing the opposite is true, with perhaps one person already knowing this. Does carrying audio over the usb cause more lag? Some (important) people seem to think it does, and with testing we should be able to confirm or deny this.
And finally, Hori is actively marketing their new buttons as being faster response time, so they clearly think this is something that their target audience, stick buyers, thinks is important. Now, if the gains of a faster button are completely offset or even reversed by the PCB, why shouldn’t people know this?
Speculating, if times was spent doing security protocols on some systems,
Not exactly console-PC, but wasn’t the whole point of the hardware revision for the AkiPS360+ to improve the x360 input lag? Perhaps security protocols or similar required on one system might not be needed on another, hence improving speed.
If the PCB behaved differently and performed a whole set of extra processing specifically on one of the platforms, yes. I would be surprised though… I assume being connected to a PC has no special consequences on the PCB’s side.
The way I see the PS360+ Xbox360 input lag episode, it’s a hardware issue that couldn’t be fixed via firmware update and happens only in Xbox360 mode, i.e., if it’s connected to a PC in Xbox360 mode, it also happens. I could be mistaken, but I would find it odd if PCBs performed differently on the PC (I see PC scenarios as just console controllers that happen to be connected to the PC).
@noodalls Just don’t argue with him, he doesn’t get why/how statistics works. The only measurement method he’ll ever accept as valid is some oscilloscope laboratory or other such nonense.
What I don’t agree with is how they are whipping up people into a frenzy over worrying about lag. And sending people into a witch hunt.
The average player will never have to worry about input lag unless the stick or controller in question has a huge amount.
And we know the pro players are not concern as they are winning tourneys despite how much their controller lags, And we got several years of Evo results as proof.
As a player I’d like to get the best possible hardware, at least one that gets in the way as little as possible. Acting like the subject isn’t there is silly.
For example, that’s why mice have a ton of factors to care about.
There more than just input latency such as reliability, compatibility, ect.
Sure, but generally there aren’t reliability issues. Compatibility? I don’t remember an example other than that old Madcatz FightStick that required a proprietary implementation of USB or something that was only available in Intel chipsets…
And those get talked about in other threads. This thread is solely about one simple thing, and that is measuring lag. The discussion is, by and large, calm, and people are telling noobs who come in and ask to consider those things.
That people are stupid and don’t think things through doesn’t mean that measurements shouldn’t be made.
Trust me there is a few than just the old Mad Catz PS3 TE Intel issue. But you wouldn’t know because you only care about lag.
The PS3/Xbox 360 era is filled with weird little PCBs with their own weird quirks. There were plenty of fast PS3 and Xbox 360 PCBs that will die on you with in a week of use, you get 3 months if you are lucky.
So the next time some newbie comes in the forums, starts a new thread, necros a dead thread years old, ask in the Questions and answers thread, or on in Hang Outs starts to cry about lag,
I will make sure to tag you and Magus here and you can deal with the stupidity. Oh and don’t just BS them ether with rhetoric ether, it better be sound and practical advice.
Also your measurements mean nothing if the data is misrepresented like it always has been.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLevqZFjlWIddDGUeFbznuZbwDECBm4luj
So, I made a new video, and created a playlist with the two previous videos I had made explaining my input lag testing setup. If there are any questions, fire them back here. Hopefully it makes how I get my data a bit easier to understand.
Would anyone mind if I made a new thread? My method is fairly different to Teyah’s and there are some additional things that it can test. I wouldn’t mind it not being on page 26 or a massive thread.