Someone finally understands the plight of the Vampire Savior player. :’)
I just ordered a ‘zero delay’ USB arcade encoder from an ebay seller. I wonder how much that really lags.
I have the older ps360 PCB, I wonder if it has a the same latency as the ps360+?
I’d be surprised is it wasn’t the same as the Etokki Omni results as it uses the same ‘paewang’ tech.
How was the ~2 frame additional input delay on the PS3 version of SF4 determined? The only test i’ve seen on it was some wonky recording where they counted the amount of time after a button press before a character moved on screen. IIRC they used the first round of mad catz sf4 sticks. Seeing these numbers, the difference in input lag between the versions could be attributed to the sticks themselves. Has a more reliable test been done?
On the case of the Q4RAF which can be set into either XBOX mode or PS3 mode.
Which mode is faster for using on PCs ?
Is it the console thats causing the lag or which PCB it uses ?
UPDATE:
I used button masher http://buttonmasher.sourceforge.net/
and determined it doesnt make any difference. Sometimes I get as low as 1ms. Highest I saw was 12ms.
You’re taking what he said out of context. A monitor’s increase from 10ms to 31ms is leagues more than the differences you’re talking about between these boards. That’s what he’s getting at in terms of the hardware and it being non-detrimental.
I agree that swapping sticks can cause issues, but a solid stint of play would allow you to adjust in the short term. Amazingly, this is kind of what separates the top players from the rest, they don’t just adapt to the game and their opponent, but also overcoming any shifts in their controller very quickly. Kind of a neat way to think of it anyway, since most top players borrow sticks like mad, and only once in a while turn down an offer on something specific as far as I’ve seen.
There is a lot of posting about top players and lag. Top players will be top regardless because being good at fighting games does not center around lag statistics. Also you will adjust to whatever your setup is.
But minimization of lag should still be the goal, and info on latency is useful to have. If you switch sticks mid tournament it would be nice to know if you are now getting an additional frame of delay or if it will be a negligible difference. If you test a game for lag it would be nice to know what additional delay you can expect from your input.
SF4 was tested separately by 3 people in Tech Talk and we found that PS3 had 1 additional frame of lag. Someone else tested using TE Round 1 sticks and observed 2 additional frames of lag in PS3. That is the one people tend to remember because he was louder about it and posted in multiple threads.
It’s not out of context - he’s backing the assertion that “a few milliseconds” (like say, 21, which is the difference between the top 3 PS3 PCBs and the MCZ Pro) isn’t going to have a detrimental effect on your play. Going from 2.1 to 23.5 ms on a PCB is efffectively the same as going from a 10 ms monitor to a 31 ms HDTV. Except that the guy beside you is still effectively playing on a 10 ms monitor.
Short answer yes as the VX-SA is still in production and VX-SA Kai is not.
Keep in mind older units would have a different revision of that PCB.
Long answer, depends on the individual stick.
Like the Mad Cat Round 1 TE for the Xbox 360 has 2 different revisions of their PCB
I disagree, many of the older Hori PS3 PCBs are much more reliable and have a high compatibility than the newer PCBS, many of the 3rd party PCBs attempt to Emulate early Hori PS3 PCBs and even the Sega VSHG PCB compatibility although the old Sega VSHG PS3 PCBs have high compatibility but low reliability.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see how anyone could suggest you can adapt to input lag. Your test is designed to study button presses but I assume the lag has an impact on directional input as well. So let’s say you have to block a 13 frame overhead. If you’re playing on a stick with 23ms of delay, which is over 1 frame of lag, realistically you have 12 frames to block that overhead. That sounds huge to me and that’s assuming everything else within your setup is peerless, whereas often it is not. People are bringing up how much important this would be in old games but fighting games are more than combos. SF4 has single frame “hard to blockables” and there is reason to suspect that playing on a bad device would have impacted someones success.
I don’t see how someone can “adjust.” Your reaction times aren’t going to increase by playing on a bad stick.
a single frame is pretty big dude.
this just confirms that all the skepticism about 3S on anything but cps3 has been warranted. so many variables which add just a bit more delay and/or a bit more gameplay speed. which just compounds things and makes it feel that much more wrong. at every step it gets shittier and shittier compared to what it was designed to be.
for once the purists aren’t insane.
how do you adapt to input lag? you guess, duh.
Fair point, I didn’t take the extreme, more the median values. That’s what happens when I type before I have coffee in the morning.
It’s good to know this information, even better for developers to see it in plain text to perhaps adjust and try and improve their hardware in the next revisions to compensate. Transparency is a good thing, maybe this will get devs to take this more into account to help remove the sticks as much as possible from the variance.
Speaking of which, no Cerberus to include in the testing?
I’m speaking entirely in terms of input delay results (is. The topic of this thread), not other qualitative factors, sorry for the confusion. I do hold Hori products in very high regard.
1 frame in a 60 fps video is 16.6667 MS
Human reaction time varies from 18 ms to 300 ms
You purist are still nuts.
The average human reaction time to visual stimuli is 215ms, which is why I used 13 frames as an example above. One frame delay is a huge difference within that circumstance.
18ms? wut. Source?
To some people, myself included, 1 frame of extra delay beyond what one is used to is pretty noticeable. Anything more than that and it becomes a pretty glaring annoyance.
Take SFxT for example. I’ve read many times on this forum that people feel that movement in that game feels like “walking in mud”. This is mainly caused by the high amount of input lag in (360) SFxT as compared to SF4. The difference? Just 1.5 extra frames (+25 ms) of delay.
Can you test HRAP EX and HRAP EX-SE? (if they use a different pcb)