Does the VX-SA have the same PCB as the VX-SA Kai?
does the HRAP VX-SA for ps3 use the same PCB?
I’m ready to get like 10 Kai’s if its proven to be the exact same PCB with the same S-tier input lag.
Unfortunately no, the Hori PCBs on PS3 are not nearly as good as on 360. They still beat out every other licensed PS3 arcade stick, but for whatever reason, third party PCBs rule the day on PS3 by a huge margin.
Wish I had a VX-SA Kai to test, I’d like to know too. Chances are slim that I’ll end up buying one though since I already have way too many sticks as it is (half of those sticks tested were mine…) But if I run into one I’ll be sure to update this thread.
Someone save fighting games and mail Teyah a Kai to test!
Here’s a quick picture of the inside of my EXChanger, if it helps any:
As for the pads, I’m afraid I won’t be testing any of those unless I or someone I know happens to get a pad hack done. It wouldn’t be totally crazy to guess that your pad would have similar lag to other PCBs from the same manufacturer on the same console, though.
according to this Hori RAP VX-SA Kai Dual Modding Help - How do I connect the guide and select buttons?
no
but ive heard the fighting stick vx uses the same pcb as the hori vx-sa just no sanwa parts and you have to desolder the buttons.
edit: this dude said they use the same pcb from 5 years ago
end of the page
This. As @MarkMan has already pointed out, people have been winning on these things regardless of any input delay and, at the tested ratings, any lag isn’t really detrimental to gameplay.
Can we stop passing this bit of information around. Unless the PS360+ actually has a bluetooth chip on it (since we know that the PS4 constantly passes authentication challenges through bluetooth), this is likely not going to happen.
interesting, aprox how much is “not nearly as” tho?
also
what about the pc platform? I heard its supposed to be the closest to arcade in terms of delay
So you are okay with playing on a screen which has 31 ms delay, as opposed to the tourney standard of 10 ms (per displaylag.com)? I mean I guess you might be, but some people just want the smoothest, most seamless play experience, you know?
I guess you’ll want to start here if you want this info to stop being passed around:
http://akishop-customs.com/PS360Plus.html
if the top players win, its still no problem.
i guess if i to a tourney and bring shitty laggy monitors and the top players win then ive still done a good job.
sigh
Except, save for one instance, none of the tested sticks go beyond a single frame of lag.
At the end of the day, it’s just giving people another excuse to blame instead of simply leveling themselves up.
“Optimal conditions” isn’t something that should be used as a crutch (especially considering that top players have been winning consistently on the PRO). Better to learn to adapt to the hardware at hand instead of getting used only to one optimal setup(fun fact, at all 3 stream stations at SEAM2014, we just left sticks connected to the console and that’s what 90% of the folks used).
Funny that you mention the beta when the experiences of those who are in it line up with the bluetooth requirement (i.e. the PS360+ cutting out after a few minutes due to the console not getting an auth reply via bluetooth).
That’s something Akishop needs to address and admit that’s halted their progress.
so most of you guys are using sf4 as an example even though that game has a ton of stupid tricks to make execution easier such as plinking/blinking/select plinking. technically i could make the argument that players adapt by not going for 1 frame combos as much and not going for optimal damage , because they know lag may be present.
if we all played tekken/vampire savior/guilty gear, fuck anything else made before 2009, im sure we’d be alot more anal.
and dont act like top players never complain about lag. if you’re going to mention seam, how about you talk about xi’an complaining how there was lag on one of the monitors a few years back at seam. he plays gen, not some simple easy character, i’m sure he’d be affected by very intricate amounts of lag more than others because his character requires it.
I was wondering if you could comment on the firmware version that you tested the PS360+ on. And if you could possibly try running the test with the latest version of the firmware or a few different versions to see if firmware versions have any noticeable effect on the lag time. If not I would hope that this data can be taken back to Akishop in order to allow them to either try to adress the input lag via firmware or build a new chip. Seems like so much work by pcb manufacturers are tagging onto the PS360+ like crossbones, kaimana, etc when the performance option here is looking like the Paewang for stick builders. Kinda breaking my heart.
Out of curiosity, which top players are still using the Fightstick PRO who aren’t contractually obliged to by MadCatz? I don’t remember seeing many (if any at all) at the recent big US tournaments.
No disrespect d3v, but why put down people who simply want the best product for their money? This study brings more transparency into the market, and consumers should have the right to vote for the best product with their purchase. Even if the community claims that this sort of lag is just “another excuse,” forcing manufacturers to consider the gamer who appreciates low-lag PCB’s can only improve the market for arcades sticks as a whole.
So to find out how much it affects you basically take (ms x 0.06) = frames of delay?
If that is the case then as long as you are below 7ms it should be impossible to notice at less than 1f delay.
I guess it becomes noticable when playing on a 20~ms screen while also using a high ms stick.
As regards fractional frame lag… the thing is that those fractional frames add up with other fractional frames in your entire layout and then you end up with full frames of lag and then people start missing combos and crying. Consider a hypothetical stick is at net +12ms. You then switch from your 2ms lag TV onto one with 5ms lags… and then your game is more reliably slightly off. (Plus or minor other factors as will always be the case here.)
Speaking as someone who has done extensive work in frame specific tasks, you want each and every step in the chain to have as low latency as humanly possible. Getting a 3ms super fast monitor and then using a +10ms stick is undoing hard work.
good thread! I think more knowledge can never be a bad thing - it only becomes a witch hunt if info is inaccurate. in which case you keep getting different people to test/change testing methods until you’re confident with the results.
the idea of “it’s not that much lag, just adapt” is an attitude built out of necessity in the HD era, since it wasn’t a well-explored issue when SF4 came out. figuring out which sticks/monitors/console versions lag and doing your best to minimize that can only be a good thing. and the more attention the community pays to it the more the companies will as well.
as someone who plays 3s primarily on arcade, I notice the lag when we play on Evo monitors or someone brings a laggy stick for console. it feels way different! even half a frame, you notice enough to realize something isn’t right.
i have a hard time believing rip-off 360 pcbs perform better than official ones. its not fair to test a pcb thats 5 years old vs one that recently manufactured. there’s bound to be some kind of wear on the older boards.