Thank you based Duckie.
I don’t really mod anymore for people, but I have been getting blasted with e-mails from old customers essentially blaming them being bad on my dual mods because of this list.
Sigh.
Looks like i just found my excuse to finally buy a new stick, and drop dat 200. lol. Lol, i had no idea i had to worry about my damn stick lagging too. I wonder the totality of lag from my overall setup is. All i know is i went from a crt, xbox 360, madcatz se with the usual upgrades, to a new asus (non evo.supposedly lower lag. 10ms vs 18ms) monitor, and the same setup, and i noticed pretty much no change in my execution of 1 frame links, combos, etc…, so at the very least thats good to go, but if i can get the lag even lower, im all bout dat life. Plus, everyone needs a backup stick. ha
Omni here i come! Thanks for this thread in general. Its nice to be aware of the differences that i had no idea even existed, and didnt even bother to assume. I’ve failed as a techie. haha
edit. Also i mostly only play ggac+r, ttt2, and kof 13, with the first two being daily practices, and ttt2 being the leader of most of my gaming time, and i play mishimas (very well i might add.lol). I also play the first two games online vs my friend and randoms a lot, and my experiences have still been fine. Still able to do follow up combos after a throw with millia online like 70 percent of the time, and ttt2 is just butter online all the time on a good connect, electrics all day. These are simple anecdotes with no hard numbers, and i dont expect a new stick to create any new magic, as i can do everything just fine on my current stick and setup, but i wouldnt mind a new stick, and this data is my excuse. haha
@jimmy1200 It’s normal that you wouldn’t have issues with combos or 1f links regardless of the stick, especially if you usually play on the same setup. Switching scenarios you might notice a difference (e.g. arcade -> console, CRT -> LCD, etc).
Well i did switch from crt to an asus monitor a little over a year ago, and saw or felt no difference (I said that above). My timing for all games, some not included in my list above, was all the same.
I bet you will like the Omni though.The tested hori fighting edge has chimp bypass, but I was wondering, does a stock fighting edge have similar delay? Or is it worse?
This was answered in the previous page.
@undamned It would be interesting to see if any of the slower PCBs have issues with 1ms polling. You would think the device maker would advertise a pretty low polling rate, but it might get overlooked. If I remember right each of the MS 360 controllers I’ve looked at were advertising 2ms.
Edit: 4ms.
@MarkMan since you own so many sticks, can you try to reproduce some of these results. I know you’re under madcatz, but it’ll be nice to see a second tester, yes there are the jp videos, but i dont think there are any direct comparisons (actually it’ll be nice to see a 3rd party also try to get similar results under the same testing procedures)
Does anyone know if the Hori RAP VX-SA uses the same PCB as the RAP VLX? This video has the RAP VX-SA beating or tying against what i think is R1 Madcatz http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12403692
Oh Teyah, if they are the same, can you do a direct test of RAP VLX against Madcatz R1, sorta as a sanity test of transitivity that A > B, B > C -> A > C
I didn’t open up the protective cover on the 360 VLX to check, but the results indicate that the VX-SA indeed has a different PCB than the VLX.
I’ve done tests with two non-control sticks along the way so far (not to the extent of the control sticks) and haven’t noticed any unexpected results. Higher ranked sticks would consistently beat lower ranked sticks with about the proportion you would expect, based on the results I’ve put up so far. Right now testing a larger variety of sticks is my priority, but if I have time I’ll possibly do some tests like that later.
@Teyah, being as you are going to the (commendable) effort to test all these controllers, you should grab the USB descriptors while you are at it. This can point you to differences between PCBs of the same stick type (by seeing that the reports don’t match), and will give you information regarding how the controller presents itself to the console and how often the controller wants to be polled. Though you may not use all of that information immediately, it takes but a moment to read it out of the controller using a small/free PC/Linux application and you will always have this information for future reference, should you ever need it. I’ve used a number of different applications for this, but probably the most simple/lightweight is USBView. Myself and others used this to [gather some specific information I wanted for specific controllers](Help me by plugging your PS3 / XBOX 360 controller into your computer :)
I recommend adding to your list a column for bInterval (note that bInterval is only a millisecond value for “full speed” USB devices: MSDN. I can’t recall if all PS3/X360 controllers are full speed or not), as an extra point of reference/interest to compare. If you don’t want to put that on the public list, it might be nice to add to your own internal list for comparison/clues as to why some of the different response times are what they are.
-ud
@Teyah You can also get USBView by installing Debugging Tools for Windows. It will show up in:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\8.1\Debuggers\x64
C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\8.1\Debuggers\x86
For 360 controllers you may see a bunch of IN endpoints. The one you want has bEndpointAddress 0x81. The Hori SCV I have connected looks like:
===>Endpoint Descriptor<===
bLength: 0x07
bDescriptorType: 0x05
bEndpointAddress: 0x81 -> Direction: IN - EndpointID: 1
bmAttributes: 0x03 -> Interrupt Transfer Type
wMaxPacketSize: 0x0020 = 0x20 bytes
bInterval: 0x04
Please test the Razer Atrox as well if you can!
Thank you very much for all your great work.
Do you think you could just try to wire up a button to a pad pcb and test that as well? I’m really interested to know how these pads do.
@undamned / @RoboKrikit - I take it that the bInterval value is the polling rate from the PCB? I ran the PS360+ and VX-SA through USBView and the PS360+ shows 0x01, while the HRAP VX-SA shows 0x04. Does this correspond to 1 ms / 4 ms respectively?
Thank you. The Razer Atrox seems to be a little hard to find around these parts, but if I do come across one I will certainly do my best to test it.
me2
I don’t have any wireless 360 pads, nor do I have any padhacking or soldering expertise. So unless someone is willing to lend me such a setup, there’s not much I can do.
Also, some quick PS360+ results on PC. I tested using SSF4AE2012 PC, and found that the PS360+ performed quite well. It beat out the HRAP VX-SA roughly 7% of the time, which corresponds to ~1.2 ms of lag for the VX-SA over the PS360+. Some of which may be due to the slower polling rate of the VX-SA. Either way, it looks like the PS360+ works great on PC as well as PS3. More testing for the 360 side to come next week.
From my previous post:
You can view whether a device is “Low” “Full” or “High” speed in the USBView dump:
(screenshot from the top answer here: http://superuser.com/questions/388174/show-usb-speed-for-all-devices-in-windows-7)
If those sticks are “Full” speed, then yes, the bInterval values are the requested polling rate in milliseconds (though it is ultimately up to the host). If they are not “Full” speed, see the MSDN link in my previous post.
-ud
Isn’t the PS360+ open source? Can’t one of you geniuses fix the 360 problems?