skrull doesn’t have the one hit otg that wesker has. that’s why he isn’t used as much. skrull is probably the derpiest in the game next to…nope can think of anyone worse.
I love Wesker. Why? Have you played Resident Evil 5? The Umbrella Chronicles? He’s not only my favorite RE char, he’s my favorite villain…of anything
While I understand the Yun-like backlash he’s received, he isn’t Yun, and in a game like this one, he can only be described as “good”, not “broken.” Just some quick bullets:
-The char has no zoning game of ANY kind. Don’t say his gun shot; that isn’t zoning (and you are likely falling victim to teleport mix-ups, not the gun shot itself)
-Without flight, double jump, or aerial special moves, the man is absolute ass in the air. Sure, he’s great at set-ups in the air, but he can get mad lamed-out by Dooms, Morrigans, etc.
-His ground options are pathetic; without his command grab and counters, which are never used as they should, there’d honestly be no point in running him. Oh wow, he gets teleports! So does Dormammu, and that guy has Vanilla Wesker’s full-screen gun shot hit confirm BS!
-His hypers are ass. Phantom Dance might as well be Berserker Charge, Rhino Charge actually requires brains now, and apparently every Wesker player in the world forgets he has a level 3.
-On the note of ass moves, qcf H never ever sees play due to its scaling and lack of any redeeming qualities, his “counters” are often viewed as liabilities and thus never used, and even his teleports aren’t used as they should (Ghost Butterfly into H teleport for air S anyone? Or into L to get on the other side of Phantom Dance? NOPE! IMA GONNA JUS DASH AND CR.M DERPDERP)
Wesker’s awesome. He plays as expected from the RE games. He uses just his super human strength to inflict heavy damage, which is compensated by the fact that he, honestly, cannot do anything else other than that. If you’re getting mixed-up by teleports or command grabs, congrats; you’ve met a good Wesker player! But if you’re just LMH Ghost Butterfly crM HS MMHS gun shot etc, you’re playing just some auto-pilot dude who really ought to be playing some other char.
i disagree- ultimate wesker is way better than vanilla wesker from an opponent’s perspective. i never used the guy, and dont care to learn how to play with him any time soon. he’s cheap as hell. his “lvl 4” xfactor is 10 times better than vanilla’s lvl 3. he can kill chars with decent health in a simple combo- no meter. that’s absurd. speaking of health, how in the hell does he have more health than sentinel??! his otg is better in ultimate, and that pot shot spam in xfactor b.s is ridiculous. but my biggest gripe about him, is watching someone blow through the first two chars of their opponent with their ENTIRE team intact, only to be decimated by a lvl 4 wesker in the hands of some amateur. put him in the hands of an expert, its even worse. #nerfthebastard for a while that used to be me, but because soooo many ppl use him, i got enough practice to deal with his b.s. 95% of the time he’s @ anchor, so now i snap him in first chance i get. i have laura (X-23) chase his scared confused ass down and rape him with her crossups. do that and would u imagine the rest of the team falls like a deck of cards? #easywin love the ragequits. i digress. my point is wesker is so broken and cheap, he gives decent players a SERIOUS edge over good players, and thats just wrong. dont even get me started on his zombie (brain dead) combos.
nerf zero!? what? he’s another char i never use and don’t plan on using any time soon, but im sorry- vanilla zero is better than ultimate zero. with all the char buffs in ultimate, i find it easier to deal with zero’s insane priority frames. yes, he’s still annoying and his crossups r better in ultimate, but i can deal with him now. imo, u couldnt even touch the guy in vanilla- he was so damn safe. zero doesnt have much health- so ur best bet against a good zero is to cross him up and chip his ass down. when he’s tagged out, snap his ass in! then he’s really screwed. you’ll find a lot of zero players start to panic and make mistakes at that point (mainly from running away)- pressure him cautiously and chip him out until u see the best char death in the game.
EDIT: after reading all the posts, i am truly amazed on how many ppl hate zero in ultimate…i must not have met enough good zero players =/
Lol okay I have to comment on this.
- His gun shot IS zoning/keepaway. That is his zone game. What are you talking about that you’re falling for teleport mixups and not the gun shot itself? The gun shot is what’s hitting you, the teleport down is simply to recover faster so you can do it quicker and the teleport backward/forward is to stay in the air or get a better angle. There’s no mixup there…
- He’s got his teleports to keep him in the air for an extended period of time, or escape situations. It’s not the best of air options but it helps and it also starts mixups.
- Again what are you talking about, his ground moves are some of the best in the game. Safe, lots of stun. As well as his command grabs and ground gun shots for zoning, setups and OTG.
- You’re not using Phantom Dance properly obviously, he does a tonne of damage with it as well as the boost. Rhino Charge always needed brains, you can’t just throw it out. Level 3 is certainly not underused.
- QCF+H is actually pretty good apart from the startup and when it whiffs. If it’s blocked you can be relatively safe with a Cobra Strike teleport. The counters are great for Morrigan and Doom as well as mashers. Most people don’t use the teleports right fair enough but some people do, and air S followup isn’t optimal anyway.
Thats all well & good if you genuinely LIKE the character. I think players should main the characters they like and focus on making them better, not just gravitate to whatever the the high tiers are and jump on the bandwagon.
For the rest of us that don’t really care about wesker much though… blahhh.
Blah i say!!
-While his gun shot is indeed his zoning game, I could never refer to him as a zoning character. I mean, Dante can zone, but would anybody call him a zoner? I mean, have you ever seen Dante being used to zone (besides people up-backing into his Guitar move?) My point is that he doesn’t have the same projectile game as, say, Doom, Dorm, Sentinel, or even Chris. He is not a zoner, meaning that his options are limited. Spamming gun shot only -appears- viable because people, for some reason, keep getting hit by it. What I meant by falling for teleport mix-ups, and I should’ve specified, is when they BLOCK the gun shot, and get hit by either the called assist or by Wesker himself.
-Yes that is true
-What I meant is that Cobra Strike is hard knock-down, Ghost Butterfly is wall bounce. I guess I should’ve said that they aren’t the most “special” moves in the game, in that he doesn’t have, say, a ground bounce, a capture move, a lockdown move, etc. You’re right in that they’re safe, strong, and effective when they hit, I guess I was saying that besides CS and GB, he really doesn’t have anything else (as argued that you never see his counters or qcf H, and that his command grabs are integral)
-My point in Phantom Dance is that nobody uses it “properly.” To me, a proper use means getting the full hits of the move, something we just do not EVER seen in high-level tournament play. In Vanilla, its purpose was pretty much to cancel a second Samurai Edge Low Shot into the team super. Now with his glasses thing, it is basically like using Berserker Charge. His level 3 is just something I rarely see in tournaments A. because “Dark Wesker” requires no level 3, and B. because, like old days, a lot of people would rather cancel low gun shot into team super than save the meter for level 3.
-I know it can be made safe on block, I just find its uses in combos to be impractical if only due to the scaling it forces you into. I feel its only real use is to push them closer to the corner in conjunction with Cobra, which can be counter-intuitive since a lot of the time Cobra is canceled into L Phantom Move…
I agree that his counters are super gravy, and I try to condition my opponents into triggering them. Like I said, you don’t see them because their start up and recovery really make them so that you pretty much have to use it first in anticipation, not necessarily on response. Anticipation is a bit too risky in Marvel, where a wrong guess can cost you, which is why they don’t see play. I do agree that Weskers would stop being so super free to Morrigans if they’d only counter, but a smart Morrigan will take to the air, where Wesker’s counter can’t hit her anyways.
True Grave - Agreed. I’ve always said that people should play with their favorites, and Resident Evil is my favorite franchise, Wesker is my favorite character from it. I vowed to play him no matter how bad he may be, and given that my playstyle has always been mix-up and command-throw centered, he’s just perfect for me.
This tells me not to take your post seriously because someone who has never used a char is not going to have an informed opinion but just for the sake of argument I’ll break it down. And keep in mind, my argument was that Vanilla Wesker was better than Ultimate Wesker, not necessarily that Wesker is a bad character because it’s obvious he’s top tier (just not in the top 3-5 imo).
Actually no, like I said, Dark Wesker in Vanilla was actually better than Ultimate Dark Wesker. Yes, he can kill chars with a simple combo no meter, I’m not refuting that but he was still better before. In Vanilla, he had 199% damage increase in XF3. In Ultimate, he gets a 170% damage increase. The glasses off buff gives him an extra 15% so XF4 Wesker in Ultimate only gets 185% damage increase instead of 199% in Vanilla (sorry, I’m getting the vanilla info from the old SRK wiki so I don’t have speed numbers from Vanilla to compare)
True, he has more health than he probably should but it was reduced from 1.1 million to 1 million. Not a huge change but he was still better in Vanilla.
How is it better? It’s mostly unchanged but if anything, it’s worse because it doesn’t pop up the opponent as high anymore, messing up some of his more effective resets.
Ok I’ll give you that. Quite irritating to watch and be on the opposite end of (I play Wesker on point so I’m rarely on the giving end of it lol). But once again, look at the numbers I gave you above. He was actually even better in Vanilla. The nickname Dark Wesker was actually given to him IN Vanilla because of this but the hater bandwagon didn’t arrive till Ultimate for some odd reason.
And now off on my own tangent.
I dont think you realize how big of a nerf the loss of anti-air gunshot to full combo is. Not to get all James Chen on you but it’s all about the space he controls. In Vanilla, the only place you were truly safe from Wesker was SJ height. Because of the range of Wesker’s normals, if I caught you jumping with a horizontal gunshot from 3/4 screen away, I could teleport over, full combo into reset/THC/DHC into death…for a simple neutral jump…at nearly full screen away…(I used to love people who jumped and shot a diagonal projectile at me!). But because that doesn’t work anymore (except in XF), at full screen you’re pretty much safe. There’s absolutely nothing I can threaten you with except naked gunshots. That one change is huge because I lost control of about half the ground.
Also
smh.gif
That’s something I can’t agree with. Good Wesker players will incorporate his level three into kill combos left and right.
what are you talking about?? i don’t fall for anything with wesker, he’s not a problem for me…i said his pot shot spam in xfactor (i meant the standing one, he can bounce you continuously by spamming it if ur hit once while doing a normal jump) i never spoke of his mixups. “im not using phantom dance properly obviously??” i already stated i dont use wesker. u can defend ur boy albert, im not going to knock you for it. lets agree to disagree on that scumbag.
<3 Wesker
Wesker makes me madder than a midget with a yo-yo.
Of course, it’s only the internet. Nor should you take my responses personally. Sorry if that first part sounded rude but what I said applies to anyone not just you. If someone hasn’t even touched a character let alone knows the ins and outs, how is that person supposed to have a well informed opinion on what that character is capable of?
I don’t understand. We’re talking about a character’s worth here and whether he was better in vanilla or Ultimate. The numbers and properties of a character’s tools do not change whether you are on the user’s side or the opponent’s side. It is completely objective, not subjective. The fact that Wesker used to be able to convert anti-air gunshots to full combos from across the screen and now cannot, the fact that Rhino Charge is no longer invincible on startup, the fact that he lost his XF infinite and the fact that he lost health are not facts that change from my perspective to yours. That’s why they are facts and not opinions. If you look at the tools he had before versus the tools he has now, he was a better character before.
Not really. 14% less damage and 100,000 less health isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of things and I readily agreed with you in my last post. But we are talking about if vanilla Wesker was better than Ultimate Wesker. And in those departments, yes vanilla Wesker was better. It’s irrelevant how significant of a change that is when we’re making this comparison. More health and more damage is always better.
Nah, the amount of time that you have to dash up and hit them with the OTG has not changed at all. It’s still as stupid as it was before. And the timing to continue the combo solo after the OTG has not changed either. The popping up property that I was referring to only really becomes relevant at the end of a combo when you go for a reset. Any other time, the subtle change isn’t really an issue. I only brought that up because you said his OTG was better when it is actually slightly worse. And that air grab reset after the OTG gunshot is like vanilla day 1 stuff. Good players will usually sniff it out and tech the grab attempt.
HOW?? I’ve explained to you factually how vanilla Wesker was better than Ultimate Wesker and yet you haven’t really given me a proper reason as to why he’s better in Ultimate except for these circular arguments. Everything you’ve said that he can do now, he could do before PLUS more. Therefore he was better before. The only thing that Ultimate Wesker has over vanilla Wesker is the glasses buff but as I said in my previous post, imo that buff does not outweigh everything he lost.
Your points keep going back to how he’s really good in Ultimate and once again, I agreed with you. While I wouldn’t say he’s top 3, he’s easily top tier but that isn’t what you and I were discussing in the first place. Wesker being really good in this game has nothing to do with the fact that he was still a better character in vanilla for all the reasons I’ve already listed in this thread.
Actually, I never said anything about Zero needing nerfs lol. Lots of other people did though. But I don’t want to derail this thread with Zero talk and this post is already long enough so I’ll PM you.
TL;DR version:
The only thing that Ultimate Wesker has over vanilla Wesker is the glasses buff but that does not outweigh everything he lost therefore Vanilla Wesker > Ultimate Wesker.
I quoted someone else. Trololololololololol. But if you want me to talk to you, pretty much all of your points are bullshit anyway
Ultimate Wesker has less bad matchups than Vanilla Wesker. As of now, his worst Matchups would be Zero and Morrigan, due to the things they have in common, which are a good zoning game and more importantly the ability to fuck him over with pizza slicers and corkscrews, shutting down his only offensive aerial option. Trish and Firebrand are probably next on the list because they can zone pretty well, though Wesker doesn’t mind bobbing and weaving around just with his 3 way aerial teleport.
I do feel these matchups are less of a problem than Vanilla Wolvie and Phoenix, who decimated Wesker to the point where I stopped playing him in tourneys. Introduction of Vajira makes him twice as viable IMO.
But you said that he doesn’t have a zoning game, and clearly he does.
Really now, necessity is more important than having moves that are “special.” Who cares about ground bounce, or capturing? Iron Fist has “special” moves and… he sucks. Wesker can be extremely deadly with what he has.
… Phantom Dance ends combos and gives Wesker a power-up. I could care less about getting all of the hits, I want to end my combo with some more damage, and I want a power-up. Are you saying that that’s not “proper use”?
I’m sorry, but I’m getting the idea that you don’t know much about how Wesker works.
thats because people were too busy bitching about wolverine and phoenix.
and after we look past that, there were characters that gave him a run for his money in vanilla. (dante, magneto, dog, zero)
there are characters that can fight and beat him in ultimate but its just easier to complain about how powerful he is since characters that can fight/beat him isn’t vanilla dante, dog, magneto status.
Wesker was better in Vanilla as a character directly compared to his Ultimate self. He is in a higher tier spot in Ultimate due to the system changes and changes to other characters.
A lot of Skrull’s derp comes from the ridiculous damage he gets off of an Elastic Slam. Command Grabs actually take thought to use properly which is why he isn’t as popular as “lol my launcher is safe on block” Wesker. Wesker isn’t as good but he’s easier to play.
I did it…i started using wesker…i feel…dirty