How many good matchups do you think Hawk has?

[darthpaulx]

Adon, Ibuki, Dudley, Abel, Zangeif, and Gen are all pretty established as good matchups for the Hawkmeister, but I have some oddball personal opinions about some matchups I personally think THawk does well in that I’d like to go into further detail about.

Oni: One of my friends I practice with plays Oni and complained every time we played that he thought THawk beat Oni, and I honestly didn’t even consider it until I played a few matches with Chris Hu and I either would do very well, or we had very tight matches with his Oni. Then I started thinking about Oni’s gameplay options and how THawk can deal with them. The one way Oni can really keep you out is with his fireballs, both of which are easily punishable by Condor dive, especially the one he has to charge to increase damage on, since he has to let go in reaction to your jump, giving you much more time to punish. If he tries to cross you up with a demon slash and you block it you get a free SPD, hell you can react to the startup of the move and grab him out of it if he’s close enough. Blocked ground pounds are a free SPD too, a lot of his mixup options are extraordinarily unsafe against Hawk, it really seems like a frustrating match for the Oni.

Makoto: Similar situation with Oni, although much less so in her case, you can punish many of her moves with SPD, and crouching forward seems like a very effective poke in this match, unless she can get that knockdown and start her pressure she doesn’t have a lot to work with. She can still be scary but I don’t think she’s nearly as frightening to T.Hawk as she can be for other characters

El Fuerte: I would say this matchup is pretty even if it weren’t for Ultra 2 shutting down a lot of Elf’s wakeup pressure. If he goes for a crossup tostata and you have Ultra 2 it lands because it catches his legs, one of the few times I’m reliably able to land it on a crossup is against Fuerte. This not only obliterates Fuerte’s momentum, but it also makes him susceptible to your wakeup pressure, which he doesn’t have too many ways out of. Without that advantage I’d say the match goes to whoever can get the first knockdown, with Ultra 2 I’d say it’s about 5.5 - 4.5 in Hawk’s favor.

I also don’t see how Yang is considered a good matchup for Hawk, seems about even to me.

yep i agree with you that those are about it for good matchups for hawk.
all characters with projectiles are bad matchup for hawk imo.
if the player knows how to play with them then hawk has a really hard time.
even though they say that cammy is in hawks favor, i disagree.
i think it’s more like an even matchup.
but most cammy players also like to attack and that’s when it becomes hawks favor.
if they play turtle and just keep hawk out then it’s pretty even.

i don’t know about dudley anymore.
in super it was clearly in hawks favor.
since his buffs in ae it’s pretty much even.
dudley must play footsies and not attack like crazy.
and his f st hp got buffed if i remember correcly.
because of this buff he can evenly footsie against hawk or even win.

[view619]

Classic Shoto/Sagat vs classic grappler match-up. Been the same match-up forever. If you can’t understand how their combination pokes (of which fireball is one) and solid AA known as DP give Hawk as a character a tough time, I can’t really help you. And with that, I wipe my hands of the discussion. Good luck.

[blackgenma]

You mean besides the fact that their standard game is a direct counter to Hawk’s (i.e. zoning and keeping it mid-range, where they beat Hawk vs Hawk trying to get past everything to get inside, which is the only place he has any real advantage)? And if you still think Sagat is even, that’s your problem. People are judging match-ups too much on the quality of players they face rather than the actual character vs character analysis.

I’m not exactly disagreeing with you on the subject of this game’s match-ups, but the example you used to illustrate this is no good. a perfect example why is found in ST, where it is the consensus that Geif has an advantage over Ryu, who’s the stronger of the two shotos in that game. geif > hawk in general but he fits the description you give.

as far as this game’s match-up with those guys go, hawk manages ok even if he doesn’t hold an advantage. Edit: compared to match-ups that are wtf bad, anyway.

[DashingGroinAttack]

I’d say Dan, Dudley and Guy are a few of the easiest wins. MT screws up their pressure game and Hawk’s footsies are pretty raunchy. Gief is up there too, since it’s so easy to keep him at arm’s length.

Couple of matches are about even on paper, but one knockdown pretty much seals the deal. Elf, Cody, Ibuki and Abel have a miserable time with his vortex.

I don’t understand HOW you guys think Makoto is cake. She terrorizes Hawk at midrange, s.MP alone stuffs so many pokes, spires, and dives.

[Lvangundy]

I dunno about Guy…have you played a good one like ComboFiend? not easy

[ChazzSteel]

I don’t think T.Hawk has enough to have the upperhand against Gen. I have a friend who’s a really skilled and solid Gen Player (DanteValmont on XBL) who I play against very often, and man it can be tough (His Secondary is Hawk, so he knows the matchup). He’s free as hell on wakeup and when you’re upclose and personal with him, but Gen has better footsies then Hawk does. Gen has one of the fastest walkspeeds in the game, and not only that he has godlike normals too (Better then Hawks). That C.MP of his is easily one of the best normal moves in the game. It has alot of reach, 5 frame startup, fast recovery, and he cancel it directly into the Hyakerunko (Chopping Hands) or his SUPER MOVE.

Look at how much more threatening Gen is with a full Super Meter -

• has a full screen move with really fast traveling speed.
• has the best Anti-air move that covers 80% of screen and has a 2 frame STARTUP.
• Every version of Condor Dive is punishable on block.
• can combo directly into a Super from a TON of his normals/specials.
• has an easy hitconfirm into any move including Ultras.

His Super Meter is as essential to him, as the Genei Jin is to Yun. It’s the thing that makes Gen most threatening. I think this matchup, at high level play, is 5-5 at best. Gen may have the better footsies and better normals (and those Godlike Super Moves), but he’s free on wakeup and when you’re in his face.

[Joe_Lewis_1]

I’m done explaining this idea of match-ups. I give up. I feel like people need a refresher everytime someone says anything; Its like very few people have retention of anything thats posted here.

[paqman3d]

Good match ups? T. Hawk? Those don’t belong in the same sentence. I’ve lost to everyone on the roster, because at this point, esp. on XBL, ppl know how to play against Hawk. Anyone who knows how to poke you to death then jump in the air right after like a dweeb can beat Hawk with no problem, no matter the character. The only solution is to play retarded and don’t bet on command grabs or condor dives. Playing like an idiot throws them off (i.e., mashing random buttons and jumping in place for a minute lol), then you can resume normal Hawking Out.

[ChazzSteel]

This is my breakdown of Hawk’s matchups -

Characters he has the advantage over -

1. Zangief
2. Dudley
3. Abel
4. Dan
5. Hakan
6. Oni
7. El Fuerte

Characters that he has even matchups with -

1. Cammy
2. Adon
3. Bison
4. Gen
5. Yang
6. Rufus
7. Makoto
8. Guy
9. Balrog

Characters that slightly have the advantage over him -

1. Ryu
2. Ken
3. C.Viper
4. Evil Ryu
5. E.Honda
6. Sakura
7. Cody
8. Rose
9. Sagat
10. Yun
11. Ibuki

Characters that heavily have the advantage over him -

1. Chun Li
2. Dee Jay
3. Guile
4. Dhalsim
5. Akuma
6. Juri
7. Fei Long
8. Vega
9. Seth
10. Gouken

Characters that are impossible matchups -

1. Blanka

So yeah, I’m sure alot of us would agree that the majority of his matchups are not in his favor. The trend I’m seeing is that characters he beats midrange are in his favor, characters who he can rival footsies with (that are not projectile characters) are even matchups, it’s universally accepted that Hawk is at a disadvantage against all projectile characters (With the exception of Oni and Dan IMO whose fireball games are mediocre) and that Blanka is a virtually unwinnable matchup.

[scratchback]

Pretty much agree with your entire list but I’d say he loses to Ibuki and Gen at higher levels.

[ChazzSteel]

Pretty much agree with your entire list but I’d say he loses to Ibuki and Gen at higher levels.

Now that I’ve given it more thought I’d say that Ibuki definitely beats Hawk at higher levels, but honestly though I really don’t think Gen has enough to have the advantage over Hawk. I have alot of Gen matchup experience and I’d say it’s 5 - 5. Hawk can rival Gen’s godlike footsies and once you knock him down (or get in his face) he is so free to any kind of pressure. He’s one of the most fragile characters in the game not only because he has 900 health/stun but also because he has one of the worst wakeups of any character. His best wakeup option is the EX Gekiro (Levitating Kicking Move) but it is so horribly unsafe that high level Gens will almost never use this move (He also has the slowest metergain in the game too, which makes conserving meter that much more essential to him).

Really, the only time Gen truly " beats " Hawk is when he has a full super meter, but it’s not a winning plan still.

[Greenflag]

I agree with ChazzSteel, too. Except that Dhalsim, Akuma and Seth are slight advantage IMO.

[Brosidon]

I’d personally swap Fei and Cody, and I’d put Ibuki as an even matchup but other than that I’d have to agree with Chazz.

[darthpaulx]

I also agree with chazz exept hakan.
i don’t know but a hakan player here beats me to hell all the time.
he’s best hakan player in europe now.

attacking hakan is suicide.
playing defense only let’s him stack up oil and when he’s done doing that his attack has advantage.
hakan is stronger in air.
on the ground, well hawk is slow motion in walking so you get the idea.
i have to let him attack me with oil and out footsie him and spd him from time to time.
i think this matchup is pretty even.
after hakan gets his buffs it will be in his favor.
also the same with dudley.

a good boxer and bison player still has advantage against hawk imo.
just chip hawk and turtle him to death.
i can beat hawk with my bad boxer skills.