I have been trying to learn Ken + Ryu as of the last week or so, but I can’t seem to execute their most basic strategy/gameplay. Use fireballs to keep them at a distance and then dragon punch when they jump.
My main problem is I can’t throw out fireballs with any type of consistency. With Ryu, when I miss the fireball I normally get the f + HP normal (sliding fist type move). I guess that means I am pressing punch too late?
Of course if you can’t throw fireballs w/ consistency, then you are going to lose a lot of matches.
My arcade stick has a square gate, not sure if that is hindering my progress.
Should I just bite the bullet and learn a charge character instead? Constructive thoughts welcome.
Im not a great player by any means, but i really think you should just pick a character that you like and learn him/her. I dont think you have to learn ryu/ken style characters before you learn charge characters. However, with that being said, most players know how to do every type of input and command. Even if you only play guile and dee jay, you should still learn how to do quarter circles and shoryuken movements, half circles and full circles. And if you only play shotos you should still have an understanding of how charge moves work.
Street Fighter is very much a strategy game. And just knowing your own attacks isnt really enough. You should try to know not only what every characters attacks do, but also how to do them, how to counter them, and some basic understanding of the frame data (startup, recovery, invulnerability - at the very least.).
But once again, i really think you should just pick a character that you like, and really focus hard on getting good with that one character. After you feel pretty comfortable with one character you can learn another, and so on and so forth.
Basically, heres the best advice that i can give:
Pick a character that you like.
Focus on learning one character at a time.
Learn the basic inputs for special attacks for all characters.
Learn the properties and frame basics for most characters. (startup, recovery, invul, etc. - You dont need to memorize pages of frame data but try to get a basic understanding of common attacks)
If you are having problems throwing out hadoukens, it could also be that you may be trying to shoot one out too quickly after firing the one before.
Also, make sure that when you hit your punch button that you press in and release the button too. If you tap it like that, you will have a much higher rate of success.
Personally, i have much harder problems with shoryuken in this game. (Im using a pad… although it is a PS3 one not an xbox one, thank god lol…) I think the problem is that you really have to push hard with your thumb to make diagonals happen correctly, and because the hadouken timing is so forgiving, i get hadoukens often when i actually wanted a shoryuken. =( – I believe another part of this issue may be lag, because my rate of success of reversal shoryukens and shoryukens in general is much higher on local play.
This is definitely a problem that I was unaware of at first. Would try to throw the next fireball as fast as I could. Not really noticing that you can only have 1 FB on the screen at a time.
Also there is so slowdown framerate wise in the game, and that mentally throws off my timing. I don’t know if there is a real consequence in terms of your inputs w/ the frame slow down. AKA the game slows down I should slow down my fireball command?
Really good point. I forgot about the press release. I tend to push and hold the button down for a little while and then let go. Maybe I need adjust that.
Just to be honest I have a hard time throwing them in training mode. So for me it’s an execution flaw on my behalf. But I have tried a couple of things in order to help out my execution. For example, I start the fireball from the down back position. So I would try down back, down, down forward, forward + punch. That still doesn’t get me where I want. I also have problems with the hurricane kick, which is of course the same general motion except of QCB.
I think I am going to try your suggestions and give it couple of more days, before make a switch to a charge character. Thanks for the tips, and also for your time required for creating the response.
Meh, charge characters have their own execution hurdles to overcome, namely learning how to advance and still keep your charge. Just keep at it and you’ll be fine.
It helps to visualize what the command looks like. For instance, a hadouken is down, down-forward, forward, punch. That looks like a quarter of a circle. You just have to just kind of roll it out there. It’s hard to tell exactly what you’re doing wrong though without watching your hands.
Go into training mode, excecute the slowest FB you can, then slowly speed it up until you whiff the FB every time at that speed, once you hit that “too fast” point, scale it back to the “just right” point.
From that point, experiment with all 3 versions (4 with the fake) to figure out the timing differences.
Then combine a DP right after into the mix, FB-> DP, FB->DP, etc. (Make sure to do this on BOTH sides of the screen, so you dont have a “weak side”.)
You’ll be suprised at how quickly you’ll get this down.
Also, in a real match, dont be frantic, calm and careful excecution wins the day. And learn your normal attacks, and mix it up, if you fall into too predictable a pattern, you WILL get kicked in the face.
Wake up DPs with consistency will make your life easier under pressure.
help on charge characters? Can’t do flash kicks or headstomps to save my life, though DPs and FBs, FB+UF are all second nature to me. Sry for stealing your thread OP
Some characters seem to be a little testier with their charge down, up, punch/kick moves than others. I had trouble with the headstomp too back in the day. You just have to push the stick to up and hit the button before you jump. Biggest set back seems to be hitting the button before the up command registers. Just make sure you do it in order and it will come together.
Don’t expect these things to come quickly. Execution is a necessary thing that you just have to learn. Practice, practice, practice is the best I can tell you to do. It’s like any other dexterous activity: It won’t just come naturally. One doesn’t get piano hands, or a straight billiards shot just by hoping. Get in the ring guys, it’ll come.
I have similar controller (Hori EX2 with a square gate) and was experiencing identical difficulties to yours until recently. I have never used an arcade stick before in my life up to this point and was consistently wiffing fireballs and throwing out crouching jabs instead of dragon punches all the time, especially when I was in tight spots under pressure.
I thought I had figured out a great new way to ensure I had the motion down in training mode half a dozen times only to see it fall apart all over again once I got into real matches.
What finally did it for me was a couple different discoveries. First of all just like others above have said calm down and don’t get so frantic when you see someone jumping in. It is much easier said then done but it helps a bunch if you are relaxed and confident rather then anxious and nervous.
Second, try NOT to hit the edges of the gate. My old motions all sounded like SMACK SMACK SMACK as I would pound the joystick on each input forward, down, diagonal down forward for dragon punches to make sure I hit each. When stuff didn’t come out I always assumed I had somehow missed an input and try hitting them harder.
Finally I realized what I was really doing wrong was hitting the final input punch button TOO EARLY. All my directional inputs were just fine, they just took too long to come out and as a result I would hit the punch button too soon. Recently I have changed my dragon punch input to be 2 small flicks forward and down that don’t even hit the sides then making sure I pull or push it all the way into the corner before hitting the punch input.
The real reason I think this works is that when you see a jump in you are ready for and start your dragon punch command, you hit the final punch input when YOU WANT THE MOVE TO COME OUT - regardless of whether or not you are done inputting the directions with the other hand. Faster input of the directions means they will be finished when you need them to be.
Wow, that is way longer and more abstract then I planned it to be in my head, but applying the same logic to the fireball motion had the same effect for me as it did for the dragon punch motion. A quick down twitch followed by a forward twitch and a punch did the trick too. Hope this helps speed the learning curve for you cause it took over a month for me to get the hang of it.
I’m having a terrible time executing dragon punches. It’s something I don’t ever recall having a problem with. Maybe it’s just one of those temporary mental block things. Regardless it will get better with practice.
I think this is 80% of my problem. When I am not confident in my execution, I rush myself to get the move out.
Once AudioCG suggested going into training mode and doing the slowest possible fireball. I realized that I was trying to do the motion as fast as possible, and when I slowed down I had more success. I think as a new player with Ken you start reading about these hard to execute moves like a juice kick and such and you feel as if you have to do your inputs really fast, and that isn’t the case with the special moves.
Thanks for that tip. I have been riding the gate edges. I figured that way would ensure I get the down forward for the fireball.
Yea. I was actually surprised by how late you could hit the button and get a fireball and hurricane kick
Thank you for explaining it. I think this will lesson my learning curve :). Thank you.
heres was my practice routine for DPs, guaranteed to see results in a week. Its boring but it is the fastest method imo to get really good with the motion (this has been tested using a HRAP, not sure about pads):
need:
Classic ST
Prereq:
Practice Mode–>Training Dummy on BLOCK
DO:
Start Right Side:
2 sets of 10 reps Dragon Punch whiles moving forward (easy)
2 sets of 10 reps Dragon Punch whiles standing (inter)
2 sets of 10 reps Dragon Punch whiles moving backward (hard)
2 sets of 10 reps Dragon Punch whiles crouching (still doing this one)(advanced)
Switch to the left side and repeat. Best to do in rapid succession, do NOT get caught up on missing, just do the motion. Do this for an hour a day.
Actually, I disagree with AudioCG: I believe you are not reaching down-towards while performing the qcf motion. This happens very often in bad quality sticks or badly assembled ones. Of course, first you must check your execution to see if you can learn to consistently reach that diagonal with the stick you have, but it may be just too bad. This is my case: I ordered 2 sticks so I could play with a friend of mine, but no-one could get consistent with the sticks. I decided to open them and check the switches, noticing that there were problems with them, namely:[list]
[]the angle one must move the stick to hit some of the switches was much greater than the angle that was needed to reach others.
[]the diagonals and straight (up, down, left, right) directions would not be symmetrical[/list]The reasons were simple: due to the bad quality of the stick, some of the switches were much closer to the shaft than others. This affects the diagonal regions much, as if two consecutive switches are too far or badly placed, the diagonal that is obtained by activating both will be either harder or impossible to reach. There is no definite solution but to buy a better part, but you can try attaching something to the switches that are further from the shaft, so that at least it gets more symmetrical.
If your problem is not execution (e.g., you are able to perform hadoukens and SRKs in arcade cabs), check the Tech Talk section for info on how to modify or craft your own joystick with quality parts.
