How greedy coin op owners kill a games buzz

I understand the reason why there’s a timer. Just like forcibg left handed joysticks make more games end quicker than forcing right hand joysticks, and mire than giving players a choice, and hardening a game without flipping dip switches.

The main reason it to move the line. But even if you turn off the timet at hone, that sugificantly alters strategy. It’s like the tine limit was irntentionaly part of the design, and does not seem cheap or tacked on.

Of the big early 90s fighters that I was exposed to, Street Fighter 2.x, Mortal Kombat, and Eternal Champions, 2 of the ganes’s with time ruined the experience.

The only one of the 3 that was balanced well chronometrically, was Street Fighter 2.x (any Capcom made SF2-Based game). The timer wad s factor in 20% of the matches. Not that 20% of matches end in the ref’s time out decisions. But about 20% of SF2.X matches come down to 20 second ls to go, and that’s usually when you think internally “this is a long one”. And when that happens, you alter your strategy depending on whether you winning big, losing big, or fighting for every pixel on both bars,.

My Guest Web SF4 comnmentary was weird, until proven true.

In one tournament where was comsidered a local celebrity entry, in addition to my friend the local gaming tv star and his protege who appeared the next year on WCG season 2. (Justin Wong, the first gaming star i heard of outside of my friend and his tekecised exploits, also appeared on season 2). Since i git my lical fame bu commentsting local nini golf, I tried my uand at SF4 web commentary. I noticed in one particilar matchup 3 or 4 matchup, most were practicing a big combo and matched ended pretty quickly. In best of 5 rounds matched first to 3 matches. In the 9 matches, we seen a person win with a big vitality advantage by time decision, 3 mstches whete thev person ahead using time to force an opponen’s error, a person being too conservative a with a marginall lead and losr vua KO, and one back snd forth round, where the difference in heallth wad unnoticeable to the naked eye, but the last second hit to give someone a tape measure win.

Due to the nature of these long matches, when i noticed the time at 50 seconds lleft the other host said it was too early. And I said, with most other matches not getting to 50 seconds, and with half these matches asking you to think about the clock, you may want check your sutuation early, before it’s crunch time.

The only other unique comment I made when I noticed a lot of hits, some landing, some blocked, in 3 seconds, but no combo indicator, I said sometimes a chaotic barrage that it technically blockable in the middle, but not fully blocked anyway, is better than a predictable, blocked conbo.

Let’s compare SF2.X to its 2 biggest Genesis rivals, Mortal Kombat and Eternal Champions.

One thing that flawed the cartridge version of EC was that timers were so fast, the timer felt “quarter-hungry” . And this is a hone game. There’s no libe to jeep moving abd feeding quarters. This is either a bug ir a oshcological muscalculation This is because of all hits being isolated hits and barrages that are ALWAYS blockable in the middle. matches feel like the ref has to take a pee break, as opposed to time becoming a factor only when it “feels like time to think about time”. EC had the problem of the clock sneaking up on you, and ending WAY too fast too many times, and had way too many ref’s decisions if you go by SF time.

MK only had time just to clear milkers. A jhunan matvh ghat hot yo 60 second temsinibg is rarem. i had to double time limit tlwin the sub boss in number 2 (Motoro?) to beat him, because it seemed all you can get on him are isolated hits, like his defense plays according to Ethetnal Champions rules, where the only ture combo is a 5 moves in 1 animation. That easy block applies to HIM, NOY YOU. Everything else is blockable right away. Plus your only combo is blocked too many times to work, and exposes you to a wholloping. it felt like an upward climb. This was tedious. Sneaking hits and dodging for 99 seconds, twice in a set of 3.

SF is perfect in that regards, even though few matches end in time victories, enough rounds go to 20 seconds left, when you should factor in time as an aspect of strategy.

Remember when lefty sticks were used to shorten credits. It becane less if an issue with the original social Vs game phenomenon that was SF2.

The left handed stick is Here’s 2 issues that aren’t.

Mortal Kombar, me and my friend wete using the 99 econds to practice basic moves in the shadow. After round one ended, the computer said game over. I guess we basically both got booed off stage. Unexpected, hut deserved.

When I tried to fight the hidden character for getting 50 wins in a row, i thought they may have thought about this, but might not have. So i jyst beat yp on s oaralyzef neat sack for about 29 rounds, thrn CPU becane aluce with zomhie like invincibility and Bruce Lee llke fighting AI.

Midway closed 2 loopholes.

Also I was playing Turtles ib Time for the fitst time using my TMNT Arcade “Quailman” strategy of stick and move. First boss was Baxter Stockman The Fly. I know beatemup bosses are cheap by having nearly instant recovery. So i stuck and moved. I had about 95 % enetgy, and then an atomic bomb drops on me and kills me instantly. Not just a hurry up nudge to go quicker. It wad sudden, undodgable, and lethal, and thids boss one. It seems luke an unmasterable deliberate quarter eater.

The days of the modern coin op is over. Only retro machines, ride ganes, and skill ganes for prizes do well today. Since there are no popular modern coin op arcades anymore. why carry over a relic from JAMMA which inhibits people abd shortens credit length? Beeshu had a market giving an alternative until ambi sticks required 12-16 buttons using the tradutional methods. Visit SinisterSticks.com for my design I’m making a prototype for.

1 Like

12 Likes

So you’re bringing your left handed stick nonsense to GD now?

2 Likes

It’s why I put him on ignore.
He has writen nothing of value in every single thread he started. He often argues with the very advice that he asked for. He almost impossible to work with, and no one actually offered to help him with his build for obvious reasons.

I would like a little discussion on timers in fight games. Which games too quicky that feel 8ncomete (i say Eternal Champions id one, despiye thd fact it eas made for hine markets.) Is the timer an intended strategic element, or is it there just because arcafe owners want to “move the line along”?

I mentioned 2 times whete we tried to game the system and the programmers thought of that. I also had a game where the game kills ypu for trying to play sfientifically.

The only reason why I mention JAMMA standards, because they were designed with arcade OWNERS in mind, NOT PLAYERS.
It’s like asking Las Vegas casinos to give up its house edge. When a team tries to beat Blackjack odds and maximize payments, the casinos blacklisted them. That’s why casinos like head-to-head poker tournaments. Casinos are basically overglorified referees overseeing players playing against each other.

more detailed left handed schtick

I was using left handed sticks as a subtle yet trsnsparent example on hoe yhey shorten quarters. Just like QWERTY keyboards were originally made because ABCDEFG kryboatds had keyboardists type faster than the old machines could hsndle inputs. And just like QWERTY keyboards, left handed sticks just got adjusted to. The only reason ABCDEFG keyboards onlly exlst in “toys” like Speak and Spell, etc … is too many people learn adult fast typing on a QWERTY keyboards and have habits. It’s just that no one has habits on ABCDEFG keyboard is alive.

Others have weird variations,. I see s couple variations my Moto G7, but no one proposes an ABCDEFG keyboard.

People think they are smart by adjusting the contour of buttons, but they ruin it for joystick flippers.

Yes 90% of my topics tsngentially tiuch my lefty vendetta. I never bought a joystick at full price since before 6 button Genesis.
When you like something, you shut up and let the world go its merry way. You say you love it by becoming a regular.

You only complain when you’ve been systematically shut out.

I never posted on Blu-Ray.con until thete were issues in the 3D TV, broadcadt, and Blu-Ray markets.

Most of the best talk show callers don’t wear butt flavorered Chap Stick. Not one watches Itchy and Scratchy sip lemonade of 30 minutes. Controversy is healthy.

Timers are there for strategy as well as to keep games moving. It’s intended to fill both purposes.

1 Like

I’ll admit it, I lol’d. Tripletopper might be Tony Ferguson

1 Like

Damn, trippletopper is back?

And still doesn’t know really where or how to post?

2 Likes

Trippletopper the type of guy to bring a three course meal over when you invite him to dinner but leaves when you don’t have any left handed forks

2 Likes

The primary qurstion was timers. Basef on the primary topic and none of the tangential stuff, is general fighing game discussionnthe appropriate place to talk about the origin of timers, if the feel is right, and the right percentage of rounss have time being a factor and if the right percentage of games end in ref’s decisions.

The only time whrte time was even a thought was thr sub boss fight in MK2. I don’t think time is s factor in Midway fighters

Eternal Champione erred in yhe other direction. Sonetimes it feels like a rain delayed baseball game after the 5th inning. It feels like were eager to continue.

Of those 3 fighters Street Fighter 2.x got it better yhan MK1 wnd EC1.

Do most tournanebts use the arcade default timer? It seems like most playets don’t factiir time only they liose one on that basis. The look uo the local tourney rules to see if it specifies.

Most players complain time runs out. I’ve never heard of complaints about removing the clock as a strategic tool is ruining their strategy.

I just used forced leftie sticks and QWERTY keyboards as exampkes as ways to make things tougher, and somehow it becomes accepted and never questioned. Timers were used to move the line, but in EC it’s an intrusive ref, in MK it’s oike hearing tales of the end of the world. In SF, it’s perfect.

There needs to be a timer for this thread.

8 Likes

Well MK and EC are dog shit games who smallest problems are their timers so I dunno why you care. Those games suck. Talk about good games with timers or something. Not games no one gives a shit about.

Don’t boxing matches have timers?

And MMA matches?

3 Likes

Real life Martial Arts tourneys, MMA Fights, Boxing Matches, ect, yes they are riglously timed.
Often having timed rounds and scoring for blows connected.

Which the original Fighting game genre is based of martial art tournaments, so yeah.
Example here with Karate Champ

Yes, the maun reason us there needs to be a reasonable end. Even thiugh in theoty, in Baseball, if it’s hard to get outs, it will take a long time to finish. Do if a visiting team scores1000 runds in an extra team, tge home team team must be alllowed a chance to score 1001 runs befire getting 3 outs.

And i said, Midway had ways to throw out cheaters. And Konami jusy A bombed me without warning. Really duscoursged me from olaying any more. Unless i see soneone get a serious one credit score Turtles in Time is an unwinnable game.

As for EC, it was a game at the time with both SF varied characters, and MK radical specials, and the gane has anti spamming built in. So you have to master basic moves as well as specials. I prrsonally thing EC2 is Sega’s better original fighting game, not Virtua Fighter. The one thing i remembers is that timers epoiked an otherwise good experience. I know every sevonf hit being blockable is not everyone’s cup of tea, but EC2 sliowed the timer at least 75% of matches are KOs, not as high as SFs 90-95 or MKs 99.99990%, but makes it better.

By the way. I never woni ntentionally set out to win “the cheap way”, as a primary strategy going in… except as DiveKick’s Jafailey. Since one hit ends a round, the “cheap win” is owning the center and daring opponents to hit you.

Yes, timers were invented when they made an hourglass, whise very name suggest it’s a timer, and maybr before ehen they said, most by sundown wins.

The threat of dynamite was always an incentive for hurrying. Speed bonuses were too. There has to be limits, capcon figured wuthoyt a tiner, people wiuld share an SF1 nachine and practice dragon punches all day.

Asteroids is probably by tine length the longest single credit record in days You earn thousands of ships and “spend them” on pee breaks, meal breaks and sleep breaks.