Don’t play me then.
:lovin:
aiiiiiite!!! haha.
I did get fucked up a while back with my MSP against somebody wit felicia / jill / cammy @ port authority.
people don’t pick akuma, but they do pick strider, because unlike akuma, strider has oroborous, which act as a majority of his defense against characters that don’t have beams / energy extension, and he fucks up cable and ironman anyway… storm still beats him tho i think…
as for hulk… yeah he CAN be good… but play my spiderman… and spiderman CAN be good… just like zaza shows that wolverine and gambit CAN be good… any character except prolly dan and roll CAN be good… but you really wanna put that much time in a possible win, rather than put much less time into a much more likely win.
storm owns all. sent gets fucked up by a good storm and thats it. shes the cheapest character in the game, but magneto isnt far behind with his easily abusable rom. ask any GOOD player who the best character is and they will all say storm. I understand that sentinel is amazingly cheap and owns 100% of the tiers under him for free, but storm has way to many options and has an answer to every situation. Storm/Sent is even worse no need to explain that.
reiterating the point =) although if both storm and sent are played by very good people, storm has to be a lot more patient imo opinion than sent does (assuming sent/cap is gettin played)
i agree tho, storm pwnz all, magneto da man tho, he can take down sent too =)
Yeah, sure buddy. I’m glad you got offended by this thread :lovin:
Ask any “GOOD” player who is the best character in the game? So I’m not GOOD? We’ll see the next time ironman and Strider meet
I hate how the ‘best’ character in this game is one that can fly off the god damn screen where you can’t touch her and pretty much just runs away like a little bitch.
God I hate her so bad.
D:
Seriously though, how do u guys deal with a good sent backed by capcom or cyke with whatever top tier team u use?
Sent paired with good assists to a bit too dangerous to fight head-on.
So i try to be patient, run away, staying out of corners to prevent being locked down, and try to bait out the assists then punish them when ever possible.
bait bait bait bait. you run in, they call assist, you dash back and hailstorm ahvb or whatever. next time you close in, they’ll think you’re doing the same thing so you can either persue attack, or cross them up with another assist. just learn what you’re opponent is going to do. thats the best advice anyone can give you. oh and perfect your infinites. if its hard to get a touch, make that touch last a REALLLLY long time lol. if your mags, fuck the rom, incorporate jumping magic series infinite. its way easier to execute. or pick cable? sent doesnt look so fancy anymore when he’s blocking hella bullets
i mean you have to take what the sent gives you, some sents play like you can’t hit them, like they try to cover sent up but sometimes leave capcom open…if he gives you capcom take it, but when you get good, (i play mag, so for me) i might just c.rh+assist and then see what they do, if nothing do another tri jump then go after them. playing the baiting game and patience is best way against sent in my experience. if ur cable i suppose you dont have this problem with sent, if your storm just build meter like mad while u look for openings, eventually he will start worrying about all the chipping going on with hailstorm…hope that helped somewhat
good stuff. That does give some ideas to try next time, thanx.
lol no your one of the few good who doesnt agree didnt mean it that way
well now that i got the ROM down more solidly, he’s a little easier to manage, plus snapouts to assists are a lot easier (2 c.lks really get you started)
DAWOLF57, do you really use anakaris,gambit,morrigan as your team?
Disclaimer: this is mainly in response to u mixa, it’s a ramble but i might have made a decent point or two in there somewhere…
This is a pretty big rambling post, but i’ve been playing only ironman,cyc and strider teams that are weaker in some way to the best characters, but are still beastly with their own retard gimmicks.
I personally think cyclops is overall slightly better(right beneath big 4+neck & neck with strider)
~he’s not assist dependent like Ironman, for ironguy to shine:
~he likes to have space control with assists or somethin nice to set-up his counter hits, priority and his rush. Doom lets his normals for spacing purposes shine because of the extra options that doom opens up when you call him and get airborne(ironmans air to air counter hits…too good) You can even call doom and c.fp(GHETTO MISSLE)XXflyXXunfly…it can hit out storm-a assist if it’s already flying when she’s being called.If somone tries to position directly above you while ironman is flying, he can counter alot of normals into unfly infinites and big combos. if somone tries to hit him from his weakest angle combo wise(above him where his up fp will whiff), he can still up fk from the right angle to land a hit and then when it’s blocked, he can unfly with normals (up fp is good there) for blockstun or and set-up ground chains/cross-ups with doom.
~Any time you cross somone thats grounded with doom, you get instant overheads and chip sequences with good high lows, he almost NEVER has those options from a simple dash in without proper assist back-up and the right scenario.
~his specials are pretty reliant on helpers to be effective vs the evil marvel teams, smart bombs won’t chip/control space for shit unless you’ve got that ground control with a powerful assist(that hopefully chips and or gives good blockstun)
~He has good assist punishing combos too(check out the family fun guys playing im/doom… launch+doom sequences as an assist punish, they use his air counter hit ability after a short combo on the helper, only reason it works? doom forces the point character to come up to you and eat the priority or block
~if you don’t stop ironman from beasting on the helper with something before he hits them into doom he can easily re-launching your helper with another superjump cancel fk into more follow-ups (at this point, ironman can just look to the opponents air to air patterns/options and set-ups to get a good idea of how you should counter hit the opponent)…ffa ironman= ridiculous
~His flight mode gets way better when you have a good assist, doom fills the angles where the flight options are worthless, ground assists are good to make up for his lack of ranged vertical hitting normals. nobody is getting threatened by flying iron with knee drops and attacks unless he has an assist to pressure them while he drops down with priority over the opponents normals. Doc dizzle forces some of the limited duo’s into ironmans good set-ups. d.fk drop when your above somone, time it after doom and before they can jump up to you.His advantage is pretty good against capcom assist here if you can time your doom well. His real problem, safe flight isn’t possible against every duo.
~Ironman can’t deal with storm/cycs options for wiping doom all over and making it 2 on 1. it’s not easy to beat storm with any character, especially when she safely cuts off options over and over until you slip.
~Ironman is pretty limited in his options against some important duos when he tries to compete for helper damage. His slow dash+airdash speed makes him weak against cyc and counter call set-ups, all of ironmans drop doom then follow-up patterns can be simply countered. storm has the easy button, if i see doom, hail+cyc, if ironman tries to drop on her, storm can safely attack after cyc for easy follow-ups or make it a guessing game when he lands. she can attack early too using fk(wins vs too many of im’s angles), then use cyc after instead for delayed set-ups. Ironmans typical cable aaa can countercall helpers well in some fights, but nothing like what storm is free to mix things up with in this match-up.
~if storm hails when ironman is in range to block cyclops, he can’t threaten her with his priority. Bombs can be pretty annoying so it’s easier to drop cyc and just do your follow-ups. he loses alot of his zoning strengths when cyc eats up doom, this fight sucks for ironman, too easy to get your helper hurt and you gotta block…alot.
that match is the reason i think cyc is better overall.
I don’t get to play vs alot of different comp much anymore, but we have a few players and I play ALOT of im/cable/doom and cyclops teams nowadays. When i compare ironmans options without a helper like that, he is way more limited for layering his gameplay from one set-up to the next.
END IRONMAN THOUGHTS/BAD MATCHUP
~I feel like cyc fills up space easier. Fp bullet is too good when used properly to space and set-up his counter hits and safe helper calls or basic positioning. similar concept as ironman dropping some bombs and then positioning so he has a priority advantage with his ~normals~ for dmg. ironmans issue there is that he can’t damage the helper from alot of angles, cyclops has way more options from far range to do 30%-40% chunks of life and with good duo’s you just dhc for more life. cyc/storm vs strider/doom isn’t a great match but if strider slips up with an assist call or you guard cancel him after he starts re-chaining(only certain strings though), doom can lose 65%-70% from tigerknee kicksuper mash,late dhc hail. ironman is only good at punishing helpers in close when he’s has blockstun/priority options. cyclops has the option to call a helper and easily cover it OR punish the opponents super/re-positioning attempt(flight ect)
~it’s the biggest thing imo that separates cyclops from ironman and strider, an airsuper that is really really versatile at all things that matter.
~strider has good dmg output while killing assists with his orbs, kill that helper with resets in the middle of the super while you keep juggling them … only problem is that he needs a helper to limit the opponents options when they try to counter you. Unless you know how to do solo orb damage its all damage scaled… Everyone knows strider really beasts when his helpers give him dmg potential.ridiculous damage, but can’t do it from the air and not as easy to punish important supers like hailstorm. orb is still ridiculously good, even when you’re fighting storm/sent who floods your assist calls with phoonsXXhail and robots, it just has to be set-up properly against the best duos. it can’t be used as a basic counter to limit storms super and other strengths that she has.
~To limit some of storms ground to air options cyc can sj and fall to a good supering position at mid-sj height, a little below the middle of the overall height of the screen so you’re out of range of the top of her standing fk hitbox, now if you swing she knows she can win with proper distancing, but you can cancel anything she might want to do with kick super from that posistion alone. if she goes up to hail, aim it. If she sticks out fk, super her, the height is good for dmg and it’s pretty easy to aim it and mash for full damage. This is really good in a one on one match between storm and cyc, she can typically just use her priority for an easy safe option as somone lands…
~on damage from bad angles:Anytime you hit somone mid-air(assist or point) the only way to max the damage is by constant contact with cyc’s super, keep adjusting his aim even when it’s throwing the opponent upwards.
~The problem with that type of assist punish is you can’t limit the opponents movements/options while you’re making contact on the vulnerable assist. Pretty much need to hail dhc there to make it worth doing. Only thing he can do is fake the punish with a couple of hits on the helper and then re-direct back to the point when they try to counter you in some cases, depending on the match-up i’ll dhc faster or slower depending on what they can throw at me to stop me(storm cant hail him, dhc into his own storm is too fast and an easy way to force more damage from his kick super.
~damn this is a long post
~cyclops doesn’t get as many ways to open up the opponent BUT he covers his help better against the best characters.I think cyclops is the best BASIC character in the game…better equipped as a solo character to handle most situations than either of them.
random edit: about cyclops air super… the only other air supers in the game that i think are better, ahvb, dooms photons, guard cancel turns those supers into something worse than abusive(versatility on dooms gcXXphoton is too good, eats up peoples movements for free hits all the time)
cycs is bomb too
mike what happens if the storm does a LA on a falling cyc, from mid screen(full screen is alittle risky). What options does cyc have there?
also what about cyc vs sentinel, what are some things that cyc can do there.
Both of those match-ups are hard, it’s important that cyclops is able to punish them in the really important ways.
mobility options-storms airdash from proper spacing+lightning strike from some of the stronger angles both become risks if cyc is sniping her movement. Vs storm, everyone has to block in close because the bitch has too much priority.
sentinel has to fly/unfly properly and use his assist for cover when cyc has meter.
just basic threats.
their helpers-storm can’t random hail+assist unless she has perfect spacing. Sentinel has to unfly and block for his friend when you bait out helpers with double jumpXXsuper. any time you catch storm or sent slippin, you can punish from a distance WHILE limiting their strengths.
Ironman and strider have to set-up their top tier assist punishing vs the best characters, their options(the safe ones) are limited Ex: an assist getting caught up in orbs, to stop storm from using c.fk against him, he needs a REALLY specific set-up just so he’s safe during the punish. Thats a real match-up problems vs one of storms normals when strider is out to punish helpers.
grounded orb activate vs storm dumping bar+drones…not a great idea, not versatile like cyc, he only has to try to get away from what storms doing so he can snipe her from the proper angle.
against sentinel if you pick your shots right, you can counter hit him well enough to bait an assist attempt. If you aim right on the helper(even with sent blocking for his homie) you can still blast off 35% life(it’s easiest to max dmg a standing sentinel+helper when cyc does a grounded kick super, not the best spot for cyc to be fighting sentinel…). two kick supers from cyc and the match has a decidedly different pace to it. his double jump set-ups are dope against sent. I mostly take my time in this fight and work around sentinels strengths(catch him when he runs out of unfly and be patient for an opportunity when he has it, blasting helpers,building bar and looking for counter hits)
He punishes both of their supers in the best way possible imo(safe after most attempts).
Guard cancel oc. fk is useful vs some rushdown strings. Gc uppercutXXsuper is really good, just hard to time. I don’t go for gc all day, just when i’m getting harrassed with repeated helper set-ups so i can break free and move/counter.
cyclops has the priority that he needs for good counter hitting, he can punish anywhere against even the best super+cheap helpers in the game(only cable can easy counter with his ahvb)
It’s not entirely what CYC can do in those match-ups, he plays solid basic all day no matter who he’s fighting. It’s what he is able to -prevent- that dictates the pacing of the match and really gives him the upper hand for alot of late game scenarios.
Not sure if any of that is useful but basics seem to work for me.
edit: eder is always picking sentinel off with cyclops ground sweep, that move is dope.
I’m all ears for reasons why strider and ironman contribute more than cyc in a team set-up.
if your basing your tier ranking along the line of how they fight and how good their assist is, strider wouldn’t even make top 10. His assists are useless.
I wish strider had the bomb as one of his assist types. ssd would be so much more beastly.
strider doesn’t help the team. HE is the team. Your right about cyke though. From personal exp, cyke may not have one hit kill but he is damn good as point and his kk super rocks. IM has one hit kill but his assists isnt nearly as good nor does he have an air super. Cyke does contribute more to the team that IM does.
would you rank strider lower because of his skill smith level? Anytime you fuck up its potential death against the right teams. Its not uncommon for strider to fuck something up once or multiple times a game. Even making a wrong strategical decision mid game can kill you. I’ve ran it for years and still fuck up teleports and that damn grab super has killed me more times than I can remember. The amount of execution strider needs to compete against the better teams isn’t fair. He has to work 3x harder against all teams just to stand a chance.
thats gotta be a factor somehow.
If you asked me to ignore assist strength, even then I still think cyclops has more(reliable) opportunities to counter top tier characters. Strider is a pure execution character, of course he’s more likely to fuck up some tiny part of his trap and end up paying for it.
cyc is as easy to execute as any character in the game…and he has a solid gameplan in most phases of a fight.
he’s also perfect for balancing team chemistry. He’s beastly on point and beastly as a helper…
Marvel is a team game, If you’re ranking characters, it’s all going to boil down to match-ups anyways. I feel like cyc does enough in all aspects of his game to put him @ 5th in the rankings.
Striders lack of team chemistry and his stamina are pretty clear knocks against him. he may be a monster on point but you have to run crippled duos(sent/doom) to build a barelyfunctioning team. He needs the two separate assists to complete his game and limit the opponents options vs his basic moveset.
strider and cyc are only separated by small differences(strider has better mobility than cyc, but cyc doesn’t need teleport to be effective)
strider has a better match with cable, i think cyc has a better one with storm.
They’re really close to each other overall, cyc just has a slight edge as a stand-alone character in some situations.
cyc as a 3rd can compliment two characters that have favorable match-ups against most of the cast(storm/sent cable/sent mag/storm), then his strength as an assist and his strength on point are easy to apply.
striders reliance on doom always make his teammates weaker. if he was able to get by without doom as his 3rd, that would allow his partners to be effective. as it is, he’ll force your other main character to rely on doom, creating shitty match-ups before strider even comes into play.
I’ve seen enough of your strider beasting to know he’s really good with partners
When you have to put another character on point though… the only thing he’ll add to their game…dhc orbs… he’s a really limited character in the ways he can benefit his team. Thats a big problem in this game imo.
Especially if you and your assist get crossed up in orbs and double snaped. God I love Strider. But aside from that. Strider likes to hog the spot light. Strider doesn’t contribute to teams at all. He doesn’t believe in team work. Strider is all about “Okay, I’m going to fuck these guys up, I need you guys to help me” and that’s it. His only negatives is his team contribution, questionable assists, bad chin (can’t take hits), damage output, and those annoying mistake moves. Overall though, he can have two projectiles on the screen at once. One ground and one air add an assist and that’s some kick ass control. He has the stringest projectile in the game, that bomb. Double jump and his teleport is graceful as Hell. Not to mention he has great priority and good meter building skills. Fast normals, assist killing ability. All of those advantages he has are the best of their kind.
Although, I think Doom is all around best basic character. Best chip in the game, unblockable, a lot of mix up, some of the best throws in the game, great priority, useful fly mode, fast air dash, easy infinite, pretty moderate triangle jump, one of the best dashes in the game, good assist, decent air control, nice ground control, great damage output, decent run away game/keep away game, and he has no solid counter. Doom is Godlike. Sometimes when I’m fighting Spiral I start Doom. He’s a pain to all trap teams. In all honesty, he was the only character that intimidated my strider in the low tier tourney at NEC. Random tk APA works wonders…
Mike, thanks for proceeding to own me up, make me look and feel like a scrub, and proving me straight up wrong. You’re 100% right on all of those points, as far as I can see. :tup: