this is a good point but i dont think its really a fair comparison
puzzle fighter is still a good puzzle game and still retains much of the strategy or “gameplay” without the differing drop patterns.
most people would agree that a FG where you are forced to play one char mirror matches in order to have a chance at winning would be not very fun.
Cheap stuff exists only if you want it to exist. Personally there’s too many varying opinions for me to even think about it any more. I mean, you have the people who complain about cheap moves or tactics, because it exploits something they can’t counter. Then you have the people who don’t believe in cheap things and see them as definative traits of that character.
It doesn’t really exist, it’s just things about a game or character that piss you off. It also depends so much on the games you play/like and the games you hate. Example, on one hand Cable’s AHVB is cheap because it can be linked into each other and has insanely fast start up/recovery for it’s type. Yet on the other hand, Cable’s AHVB is a cool, useful tool for him to have and an essential part of his game.
You could compare this to fireballs in SF2, on one hand they’re a complete annoyance, give too much control and are rediculously easy to execute for what they do. On the other hand, they’re a part of SF that nearly everyone’s come to love and almost define the aggressive play style that makes a “shoto.”
There’s only ONE broken character, the one and only Ivan Ooze.
[media=youtube]O-g4TqMFemY[/media]
Anything that the n00b says it is, really
I watched that whole video. Ivan is the shit. 
The thing I hate is that many posters say “There is no such thing as cheap” but they don’t allow things that are Broken. According to them, cheapness just limits your playing, but somehow arbitrarily, broken is bad.
Like Gambit’s glitch in MvC2 is banned, because it’s broken.
Items are cheap… so is Captain Olimar and Meta-Knight.
Scrubs are the cheapest: they don’t approve of anything unless it fits their idea of the game. How cheap is that actually? You can’t even claim victory if you win!:rolleyes:
Any character who beats me is cheap.
Broken IS bad, do you even know what broken means?
It means that it’s so good that it’s the only viable and competent selection.
Cheapness indeed only limits your playing, like O. Sagat and ST Sim are “cheap”, in that they’re arguably some of the largest nuisances in ST and are top tier to boot, just as Chun-Li in 3s is cheap, not broken. Gill and ST Akuma on the other hand, are broken.
‘Cheap’ is obnoxious to fight, and causes you to adjust your strategy, and while having a thinner margin of victory, is still very much beatable.
‘Broken’ on the other hand, is a foot-long dick with no lube being inserted into your asshole while you watch the deed on a wall of grainy pocket televisions.
.
Indeed. ST Chun Li’s 3RH random crossup calls out to you. So much fo so little. No miracle I like it
I think cheap can generally be defined as something so good that you can’t adapt it to it like ST Akuma’s air fireball Pet Shop in JoJo. Truly “cheap” characters are almost always banned.
I don’t think that’s the right word for it though. Retarded is more like it.
The definition of “cheap” varies greatly, but excessive usage tends to have a definition of “I don’t know how to fucking play”.
Like I said, a player that creates really bad playing habits. You can complain about Cable all day, but the bottom line, if you never block with Cable, you’ll never get the idea that you’re good at a game.
Sure we can say that cheap/retarded, and overpowered goes hand and hand. I am not some scrub that complains about cheapness, I DO try to find my way around it. That very MSP player that I alluded to, is an MSP player I always beat. IT’s not like I have a problem beating “cheapness”. The problem is that this person doesn’t understand really what they are doing, but they are using the overall power of the team to make up for their lack of skill.
I have the same problem with a friend who continiously want to play me with Gill and C.E. Bison. It’s an autowin for him. I’m just a better SF2 player than he is, my spacing is better, my zoning is better, my punishment is better, etc. But one slip up with a half assed Bison user can mean death for me.
My point is that cheapness does create bad playing habits, because it gives newbies too much of a free pass. They use the power of their character to get them far. I can beat my friends CE Bison with ST Dhalsim all the time. I can beat his Gill with Q. But because he has used an overpowered or even broken character so long to weasel by with wins, he doesn’t understand any of the fundementals of either games.
The same for that MSP player. He doesn’t know how to block, and blocking is fundamental in Marvel. He has never found himself having to block anything, because he plays MSP. But when a good Sentinel or even a stronger MSP player plays him and he is FORCE to have to be defensive, he croaks There is a reason for this, because to play top players you HAVE to know defense. But he got so use to playing scrubs who let him rush at them, that hasn’t a clue how to beat stronger players.
That is what I define as cheap. Characters that play themselves.
Well if it isn’t our old friend cognitive dissonance.
Hey look at that STHD tournament that Gamespot is holding. Every time Graham Wolfe uses that headbutt juggle he calls that cheap