The same way they worked in ST.
Yes! Very good point…it is important to make sure a character doing a meaty attack on wake-up is within throw range when trying reversal throws…or you are guaranteeing that their meaty will hit (and possibly a big combo afterwards)…only way to really ‘learn’ this is to try it enough times and get a feel for it…
…going into training mode with a 2nd player who knocks you down and performs meaty attacks on wake-up from different distances is definitely the fastest way to get a feel for this.
Another thing to note is that expert players will often sit right outside the edge of your throw range when doing a meaty…making it a rare case where a reversal throw against a meaty is even worth attempting…still, it does happen in high level matches and can still be used…you just gotta be careful and pay attention to those distances.
Is that 100% proven fact? I could’ve sworn in vanilla ST that if your opponent held up, and never let go, you could not perform a ground throw on him. Like, no matter how well I timed it, I could never SPD him as long as he holds up.
Jumping takes a small amount of frame animation to get airborne.
Without having specific frame data in front of me, off the top of my head I know that Zangief’s jump animation comes out in 5 frame, and T.Hawk’s comes out in 3 frames.
So you would have 5/60 of a second to throw Zangief, or 3/60 of a second to throw T.Hawk.
But, I believe that when a person lands from a neutral jump with no attack that they will land is a recovery frame animation. So if the person is landing and jumping again you can throw them from jump recovery and the next jump’s start up.
^ Hahah, Gief and Hawk are the only frames-to-jump I remember too: good ol’ 360’s. :lovin:
I forgot to mention Cammy’s Hooligan in what I wrote… the mechanics for it should work just like Vega’s walldive throw. Most notably, you can nab people in the air.
Just re-stating two questions that haven’t been answered yet.
Normal throw versus command throw:
Does it still do the random-who-gets-the-throw thing? Does the normal throw always win? Does the command throw always win?
Command throw versus command throw:
Does it still do the random-who-gets-the-throw thing? Or is there a pecking order? (ie. SPD always beats Ochio or something)
OK, one question and one comment.
First, are you sure a reversal normal throw will lose to a meaty? Because I could have sworn that I’ve read that you can reversal throw out of basically anything where your opponent is on the ground.
As far as getting thrown doing SRKs against t.hawk, his super has a rather odd property that if the super flash goes off, it WILL grab. Period. NKI has a vid where t.hawk supers ryu out of an SRK, and chun out of a SBK, and I think he even gets honda once in spite of facing the wrong direction.
If your opponent is close enough to your character when your opponent is performing a meaty attack, you should be able to perform a perfectly timed reversal throw, if you are in range for throwing, to throw your opponent out of his attack.
This will not work on meaty attacks that are out of throw range. If you want to try a wake up throw reversal you’re better of going for a special command throw if you have it. If you don’t, go for the reversal attack, or just block. Reversal throwing on wake up is an extremely difficult strategy as it involves precise range, timing, and yomi.
I think the video in question is NKI Vol. X, otherwise known as “Super Turbo Shenanigans”: [media=youtube]e9uOygbBZg0[/media]
It also shows T.Hawk grabbing Boxer out of the startup of his super.
Do some moves have limited invincibility when it comes to throws? I was always under the impression that the headbutt could beat a tick throw as long as it hits before it’s invulnerability wears off.
But I read in the Honda thread that the headbutt is throwable at all times. What’s the real deal here?
What about the windows where you simply cannot be thrown? The one you have after getting up off the ground for example. Are there more?
umm ,how about balrog,if you block the jumping tick with high.how can u
reversal.
Also, can the Buffalo headbutt reverse as well as DP,I heard it has start up
frames.??
Cant you infinite tick throw balrog??
This is what I love about SRK, this is the stuff I’ve been looking for all morning. I’ve gotten fairly annoyed with ‘phatom throws’…where I’m kicking someone and while my attack is fully extended and in the ‘hit’ portion of the animation, yet somehow bison throws me. So if I got what you guys are saying, I’m just screwed by that throw property =/
Now I jsut need to find a table that has throw ranges and properties.
- :bluu:
gives dap
Thanx, I’ll digest it when I get home from work =)
- :bluu:
Here is a table that is a heck of a lot easier to understand than the raw T.Akiba data: http://grandmasterchallenge.blogspot.com/2009/03/throw-superiority_01.html
Honda can be thrown through the entirety of his LP Headbutt. The FP and MP Headbutt are not. EDIT: Not correct, see next post. (Thanks Thelo!) They have less invincibility but he cannot be thrown after the move starts and they hit in 5-7 frames.
Ideally you should reversal your first attempt with LK butt slam and keep your back charge (like Dee Jay’s Upkicks into Super). That way if you get double ticked you can attempt a second reversal with Headbutt. If you’re super sick, you’ll try an Ochio before the butt slam. For a grand total of three reversal attempts! One more than Dee Jay & Chun, and two more than the rest of the charge cast.
Actually, all headbutts can be thrown after the move starts! Just don’t try it if you’re not Zangief. I’ve been SPD’ed out of fullscreen fierce headbutts quite a few times, it’s always a true WTF moment. But if you use fierce headbutt as a tick reversal against Zangief, your headbutt will somehow hit him before he can grab you.
I have a theory that if Zangief did a delayed SPD by just a tiny amount after his tick, he could even SPD the reversal fierce headbutt, but that would be incredibly hard to test.
Wow that’s fucking crazy! I stand corrected. Thank you!
If I am reading the table on the data correctly, am I to assume that, as a matter of example, since zangief has a value of 47 pixels against Ryu, that this basically means that Zangief can throw Ryu 43 pixels farther than where Ryu can throw him, as can be judged by the inverse where ryu has a value of -47 against Zangief. Am I interpreting it correctly?
Recently, I’ve been having some trouble with tick throws after crossups. I play Guile, so after blocking the cross up, I no longer have a charge. My opponent then might do a low attack that pushes him slightly out of throw distance, then walk the few pixels forward he needs to throw. I’ll go for the counter throw but sometimes I’ll do it before they’ve come back within my throw range. This problem is aggravated by the fact that Guile has less throw range then most characters, so they might throw me from beyond my range. Should I maybe hold towards and paino my throws rather than backwards, in hopes of moving myself into throw range? Also, I heard someone say (maybe in this one, maybe in another) that you can tech a throw with rh, forward, fierce, and strong, even if they don’t normally give you throws. Is this true?