How do I teach this guy?

I’ve been trying to get this one guy into st by showing him stuff, telling him basics, making him read strats and so on, and he did improve a little at first but now he doesn’t seem to be able to take it to the next level.
He plays Ryu (of course) and doesn’t want to try the other characters, he occasionally switches to Ken or Sagat.
We’ve been playing for almost a year now and he still does random hurricane kicks, he can’t antiair 90% of the time, even when I blatantly jump at him, he wastes his super as soon as he has meter, when he’s knocked down he panics out and wakes up with random shit like sweeps or fireballs.
He doesn’t want to watch match videos because apparently he never has time, but wastes all of his day playing wow or some other bs, and when he does watch them he doesn’t really understand anything. For example in David Sirlin’s tutorial, Sirlin talked about Ryu’s fireball trap against Blanka, tripping him with low roundhouse once he jumps, now what did he get from that video? That low roundhouse is a perfect antiair for all situations… and so on.
It’s been a long time since we played for the first time, I’m pretty frustrated now, I mean super turbo isn’t that complicated to learn, it’s all about the mind games, yet he still loses all of his matches against everyone, but he brags when he can beat my cammy one out of ten.
My question is: is there any hope for this guy, or should I just give up trying to teach him?

I recorded a few matches so you can get an idea if you feel like it. Note all the random hurricanes, how I can jump at him freely most of the time and so on.
My play wasn’t too hot either but he still doesn’t win a single match.

Sound gets out of sync at some point, thank youtube.
[media=youtube]Gla7cE5e2t4[/media]

go no mercy on him from now on until he quits or adapts.

I am a member on this chess server, the Internet Chess Club. And I started an SF league on there using kaillera. And as a result of that, plus irl friends just starting out, I have about 8 actual students in ST. Im no top player, but I’m a very good teacher and I developed an actual specific process for teaching ST and specific characters. If you’re interested in discussing this and you’re really determined to get your friend to a higher level, I’d be happy to share with you some of my processes. I know the kaillera scene is pretty minor league compared to the real tourney scene, but 2 of my students are easily in the top 10-20% on there and have beaten the best players on there.

But for it to work, your friend has to really want to get better and has to be willing to do what you tell him. So if you tell him to watch some match videos and he refuses, it’s not going to work.

Lemme know if you want to utilize my help, and either way good luck! Nothing feels better than sharing the pleasure of success in SF! :slight_smile:

well, this guy already spent around a year helping this guy. the big question is if he wants to waste/spend more time when it’s not going to help.

I would be very pleased if you could share some knowledge, if I can get good enough at teaching I may get someone else to play too, that would be cool.
And for going no mercy on him, I already do, I streak him 20 or 30 everytime doing stupid things like in the video but that doesn’t help.

if hes been playing for a year and thats all he got, then fighting games are not for him. learning or not.

does he even want to get good?

He probably just doesn’t really care. There’s no amount of badgering or teaching in the world that’ll change that.

He’s actually fond of the game, instead, and willing to learn. He just couldn’t until now, maybe fighting games aren’t his thing or maybe I’m not good enough as a teacher, that’s why I’m asking here.
If it turns out he doesn’t want to make even the smallest effort, I’ll leave him alone.

I’ll bite.

Yes, it’s all about desire, if he really wants to learn SF, he can learn and at least attain a certain level. (I sincerely believe that everyone can) But if he doesn’t have the desire, then you shouldn’t bother teaching your friend.

However, I taught my good friend who developed A LOT of bad habits on how to play “thinking” SF. Don’t just throw shit out just because you can. He at least had the drive to become better which he improved immensely.

One obstacle of his was that he had the worst habit of getting trigger happy with the super. As soon as he’d get it, he’d try to find a way to blow it as soon as possible, rather than waiting for a good time to use it or just not use it at all (and use it as a mind game)

For example, if you have a super hadoken with Ryu, a decent opponent will know that they have to be more cautious with throwing fireballs against you. If they do throw a careless fireball, you can blow through his fireball with the super and deal a significant amount of damage. This consequence could feasibly make your opponent lose, and he doesn’t want that.

As a result, his gaming style will probably change and it’s just because you are “holding” on to this super. By not actually using is a mental edge you get over your opponent because you limit his options.

Okay, with that out of the way, notes about the video:

According to the video I watched, your friend just throws a lot of stuff out of the blue, and maybe his execution is off (I saw a mp srk, maybe a super attempt?)

First round he knocks you down with what I’m assuming is a lucky hurricane kick, but then his wake up game consists of a crouch lp, which he promptly backs off after a blocked hit. He didn’t go for a cross-up, no tick-throw, no tick-pause-lp srk, not even meaty fireball AT LEAST.

He’s not thinking about what he can do to make your life harder. He just backs off, gives you breathing space and “resets” the match. As Sirlin’s video said, press the advantage (something to that effect). Now that your friend has knocked you down, if he crossed you up and you blocked wrong, he could’ve knocked out half your life with a cross up combo (in which you would probably be knocked down and he could repeat it or, go for tick throw etc…)

If he did the stuff I said above, he would be well on his way to winning that round. Look. He has A LOT of options, but I don’t think he sees it.

Okay, so after the hurricane kick, crouch lp -> back off routine I just saw, he then gets into a fireball fight where he walks into a couple of kikokens and does lp srks.

WHY is he doing those srks?

1st, you are Chun-Li, you cannot hit him from that far with anything but your fireball, so if he’s trying to hit you, he’s doing a horrible job.

2nd, if he’s doing it to go through your kikoken, he needs practice. A LOT more practice.

So basically, the only reason I could think of him doing srks at that distance was to build meter. If he’s anticipating a jump, he could seriously do it on reaction instead of doing it super early like he is now.

I see that he also has no idea how to play the fireball game, and you should tell him to start faking fireball motions (qcf, very slight pause pause, performing standing medium punch, if the opponent falls for it, then jab srk) Mix this up with real fireballs and he can bait aggressive/impatient opponents that try to jump in. This may not sound like it works, but if I throw 2-3 fireballs in a row, and I do this, I’ll probably trick you.

So yeah, after watching that, I cringe through the rest of the match and I’ve seen enough. His fundamentals are essentially non-existant. He knows how to do the moves, but doesn’t know how to apply them.

In my opinion, he’s the person that’s “almost there”, with the right teaching he should start understanding ST on a deeper level, primarily at the mind game level. Yeah he can do the moves, but if he can start tricking you and mixing it up, that’s when he becomes a lot more dangerous and can start fighting mentally with other opponents.

So first is execution, once he can perform a majority of stuff consistently, that’s the first step. After is mind games/mixup. Once he can start tricking people and mixing it up well, then it’s match-ups. Match-ups are HOW to play against characters. The way you fight against Zangief with Ryu and the way you fight Dhalsim with Ryu are 2 TOTALLY different games and mindsets. That’s the overall player progression, (of course you can improve these qualities even more with practice/experience) and your friend can at least pull off all Ryu’s special/super moves so now he’s just got to apply them correctly.

My advice to you is tell him to watch this video and tell him what he’s doing wrong. Tell him what you were thinking when you guys watch the video and explain how you managed to beat him. I saw that you jumped over the shinkuu hadoken in the second round like you knew it was coming. Explain that to him. Say, “Hey, I knew you were going to chuck the super because you get too triggy happy with it and I punished accordingly”

If he’s a decent problem solver he should be like, “Wow, next time you try to pull that and I have a super ready, when I wake up, I’ll fake a fireball, have you jump straight up and shoryuken your dumbass, after which I’ll cross you up… etc”

He needs to at least be able to think at the “next level” or “yomi” as Sirlin says. This is key to mind games and is VERY VERY fun when both people try to outsmart each other. That’s when you see great matches and great moments like Daigo/Justin 3rd strike movie. Daigo anticipates that Justin is going for the tick-damage kill and parries, and punishes accordingly. Mentally, Daigo was at a higher mental level than Justin and with his amazing execution skills, he turned the match around with the crowd erupting in the background.

This, is the beauty of Street Fighter.

P.S. Your friend needs to learn how to throw, seriously, SO many times, he’s SO close to your Chun-Li and he doesn’t bother. Crouch lk, walk up, throw. Jump in round house, walk up, throw. Lk hurricane kick to throw. f+hp whiffed to throw. There’s just so many…

I’d love it to be the case where this guy could have some epiphany and decide to get real good at this game, but its my opinion that this guy you’re wanting to train is looking for some sort of magic pill that’ll make him an overnight success. I mean, for Gods sake, look at all the effort you are going through for this person int he last year. A whole year. That is 365 days of effort you put toward him. Shouldn’t this be the very effort your friend should be giving? Personally, I think you are doing the work for him over the year, and that in of itself is testament of how hard he is willing to work, which in turn should reveal to you just how badly he wants to get better (or to spell it out, he doesnt want to get better. Yes, he “says” he wants to get better, but whats he “doing” to get better. I mean, hes not even willing to watch any videos. Come on! Is this the effort of someone who wants to “get better?” Ask yourself "could you “get better” in this way?).

I’m sure you and your friend are decent people, but the hard truth is that from this person’s actions, he really doesnt care. You should take your enthusiasm and love of the game and find a student who will actually appreciate that about you Wakeupsweep. I’m not saying that you or your friend is a bad person. I am however saying that I think its time to move on.

Awesome, this is the kind of input I was looking for. I’ll point out to him what you said.

It’s also true he’s looking for a “magic pill”, that’s what I’m trying to correct (without success till now).

I don’t have anyone to teach me, but do you think there is a way that I could use your processes to learn/train on my own? Right now I just practice executing specials and supers on PS2 AE and then play matches on Kalleria or GGPO (alpha 2 on GGPO, obviously.)

Thanks!

wakeupsweep, I would recommend you to teach him how to play CE/SSF2 first.
Might help him whit his reflexes, since the games are slower.
Worked whit my bro, at least.

a person who wants to get good but isnt willing to put in the effort doesnt really want to get good. nobody wants to be bad at something, of course, but it’s a matter of priorities. so saying he “wants to get good but is looking for a magic pill” likely means he has things he’d rather be doing that putting a bunch of time into getting good at a fighting game. there’s nothing wrong with that, and if it’s the case you’re never going to get anywhere.

you know what would really help him is playing other people besides you, that helped the dude i was teaching.

dont ask me why, just different approaches to the game puts it in better prespective i guess

ThisGuileKillYa , I would love some help , if you could that is.

Well, a friend of mine, who is, by the way, also pretty bad at CvS2 and Super Turbo, always tells me the following if I ever telled him something about great games like GG Accent Core or 3rd Strike:

“Guilty Gear sucks, there aren’t any combos you can do!! But if you wanna play a Fighter, then I’ll kick your ass in *Soul Calibur!!”

*You should know that my friend is one of the ABSOLUTELY BEST and most ass-kicking top Soul Calibur players EVER…
No, he only plays SC because he knows that button-mashing is hardly punishable in this game.

And the joke about all this is that my friend never actually played GG… not even once…
He tries to make the game worse or boring by saying so, but only to justify his own un-abilities. That’s why he plays shitty adventure games like Zelda because these games aren’t difficult and yet he’ll get his sleezy ending sequence after hopping on some boss’s head for about 3 times…

LMAO, Quotes of the Year

It’s alright at first but once you’ve realised you can’t convince your friends to play Street Fighter you don’t care anymore and let them rot in the mental misery they’re in.

Fighting games are the best thing since the composition of “Iron Man”. They ARE hard to learn, I mean, once you think you’ve got the mechanics down there’s somebody there to show you how to throw-cancel, roll-cancel or to wavedash and to L-cancel.

This IS demotivating, I know, but every professional player started as a beginner.