How do I get better?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
1

I’ve been playing fighters for about 10 years now, but up until this year I was never very serious about them - they were fun, and I was better than most of my friends, but I was definitely pretty much a scrub, then real life lead me to playing fighters less and less. Then this year I happened to have some time off during SBO, so I spent 3 days watching the live feed, and it really hyped a friend and I up to play fighters again, so we’ve been playing a lot of 3s and some ST since then. I’ve gotten a lot better, and although I’m still scrubby, I understand the game on a very different level than I used to, and I can see a lot of the errors I used to make and still make. However, I feel like I’m reaching a plateau here, and I don’t know how to get better. The two biggest problems I have:

  1. My execution isn’t great. I have a hard time doing most cancels and combos, reversals, or even just getting supers off. I’ve spent time in training mode, but I haven’t really noticed much improvement, and honestly training mode is boring. Even stuff I can do in training mode though, for some reason I have a hard time pulling off in a match - for example, I can cancel Q’s dash punch into SA1 every time in training mode, but I can only get it like 20% in an actual match, and I can’t hit confirm it at all. I can kara throw about 50% of my attempts in training mode, I don’t think I’ve ever successfully used it in a match.

  2. Not enough knowledge of the game. Honestly, it is very difficult to find resources that really teach you how to play a fighter that teach you skills from the ground up. For example, I have been playing Blanka in ST, and I have been unable to find anywhere a definitive guide to all his normals and specials, analysis of the moves, which ones are good and bad, what situations to use them in, etc. From threads in the ST forum here and the SRK wiki, I’ve learned certain tactics like using his j.lk to cross up, whiffing jab roll into bite, etc. There’s plenty of material to be found on more advanced tactics and combos. However, it’s difficult to find basic information, like which of his normals are safe pokes, advice on how to actually execute combos, how to actually get in with the j.lk and cross up without getting anti-aired to death, and so on. Everything out there seems to be either just plain wrong, or geared toward moderate to advanced players - there’s very little for relative newbies.

I appreciate the info on setups and combos I can find out there, but none of that helps me when I don’t have my basics down.

Which brings me to my real problem: how do I go about improving? Honestly, training mode is extremely boring, doesn’t seem to actually be improving me much, and doesn’t seem to be helping me actually pull off things I learn in real matches. It’s also very difficult to find people to play! I have one friend that I play a few hours a week, but we both work full time and don’t live in the same town, so it’s not like we can play constantly. Plus, I feel that playing people who aren’t that great is teaching me a lot of bad habits - a lot of stuff that I use successfully against my friends doesn’t work at all against better players online. I know some people online who are pretty good and have given me good advice, but I don’t want to always be bugging them.

A lot of good players, including many people on SRK, honestly do not seem to do anything to try to improve the scene. There is a general attitude of not wanting to play people who aren’t already at a certain level - and I get it, it’s not fun to play someone who isn’t challenging you - but how else are people supposed to learn? The one time I went in the #srkkaillera room and asked for a match, I mentioned that I was still learning and the guy who agreed to play instantly told me that he was no longer interested and to go back and play training mode more.

Fighting games are dying as it is, and I really don’t see a way for anybody who isn’t just super talented with excellent reflexes to begin with to get better, unless he lives pretty much next door to a major scene.

Honestly, I’ve gotten to the point where I feel like my only real option is to stick to training mode and treat the game like a job, spending x hours a day practicing. If that’s the only way to do it, maybe this just isn’t the hobby for me - which would be a real bummer, given how much time and money I’ve invested into it. Ideally I’d like to spend a lot of time playing people around my skill level, or better players who will take the time to teach me stuff instead of just mercilessly crushing me without explaining what I’ve done wrong or what I could do, and then making fun of me for it.

Thanks for any help or advice.

2

I AM EXACTLY LIKE YOU. Anything said here , I’m gonna leech. However , Online play on consoles may be a solution , visiting tourneys as well , and im probably guessing buying a stick.

3

Yeah, I’m looking forward to HD Remix a lot, I hope that will solve some of the problems I’ve been having with finding people to play ST at least, if not SF3. I actually do own a HRAP2 that I use when I play my friend on PS2, and I use the Hori EX2 360 stick for MAME.

4

depends on what you have fun doing. do you have fun playing or do you have fun winning?

you really don’t have much of a choice unless you live near a scene. if there are no people around your level to play with you will have to work harder to get on other peoples level. and that means going into practice mode and getting everything 100%.

that only helps with execution though, you also have to learn the game mechanics in order to be competitive on any level. you don’t have to have frame data memorized but knowing what moves beat out what and simple match-up info is a must.

when it comes to getting a gameplan down i would recommend watching match videos. just find out what your character is capable of and what other characters are capable of. see how other people play, and if you really can’t find anyone else to play against, try some strats out on the AI. if you have to play the AI make sure you are getting your combos down %100.

this is all stuff that can be done without other people. there is no substitute for real competition. if you are having trouble getting people to play you then at least make sure you know your basics and try not too look scrubby. you have to understand that a lot of people actually do spend a lot of time in training mode to get their shit down and don’t want to waste time against people that don’t even want to put in that commitment.

anyways, whenever you do lose to people always make sure you try to figure out why you lost and adapt for the next match. worse comes to worse if you can’t find any competition go to tournaments. you will probably lose but you will get to play. since there is usually some free play going on join in on that too. fighting games are no place for shy people.

5

Here’s my advice:

  1. Do use training mode, but do it more often and in small bursts. Don’t try to sit in training mode for hours. It’ll drain you and you won’t want to come back to it. Instead, just spend 5~15 minutes in training mode and focus on cancelling some move or doing some combo. A good time to do this is just before you go to actually play the game. Or at least on the same day. It’ll help keep the muscle memory fresh.

  2. While playing against good players is really helpful for learning tactics/strategy, playing against mediocre/bad players is also helpful. The mediocre players will give you a *lot *more openings to try out your combos and get comfortable with the execution of your moves during the game. Think of playing against bad players as an interactive training mode :wgrin:

  3. Study match vids. Don’t just watch them and enjoy the crazy comebacks and combos. Instead, watch what they do. And watch what they *don’t *do. You can learn a lot by trying to figure out what’s going on in the players’ minds.

  4. You said you have a Hori EX stick, so I assume you have an XBox 360? If not, get one and pick up Hyper Fighting and SF Anniversary Collection. Playing online isn’t the best way to play. Lag does change the finer points of the game a bit. However, you’ll get a chance to play against a lot of different people and experience a lot of different play styles. And this can really help you to learn the basic strategies of zoning, poking, which moves work against others and from what range, etc.

  5. Read the info on this board and the Wiki. I can’t speak for 3S, since I don’t play it much, but there’s a wealth of knowledge about ST on here for sure!

6

keep playing

pay attention to what you are doing wrong and ask your opponent if you dont know what you are doing wrong

7

I was in basically your exact situation february, where I knew more about fighting games than the random scrubs because I posted on SRK, but wasn’t much more than a scrub myself because I didn’t play the game all that serious. Some random thoughts for you and some in relation to my own improvement:

-Fighting games maybe GAMES, but so is pro-golf or basketball. Just because it’s a GAME doesn’t mean you can improve without practice. Some people are just naturally elite and will take to the game better than you will. This is probably genetic (I firmly believe my mediocre execution is genetic) mixed with their personality fitting the hobby better. But I also firmly believe that with PRODUCTIVE practice everyone can improve their base skill level (I’ve only ever met ONE person I thought was HOPELESS at fighting games, and this was after spending MONTHS personally instructing him on how to do basic combos, basic tactics…he just couldn’t learn.)

-Productive practice: You can practice until you’re blue in the face and still not improve. If you’re like me, you hate to practice. You can’t just go into training mode and blindly flail about or do combos and expect that to translate into match play. I like to have a “theme” or an idea about what I want to improve in training mode, and then (this is important) TREAT IT LIKE A REAL MATCH as much as possible. If you mentally don’t pretend it’s a real match, then you will have a much harder time incorportating it into a game, because mentally they will be seperate.

So in ST I will put the CPU on crouch and block everything, then I will walk the cpu over to the corner, and practice rushdown and throwing for half an hour straight, just trying to be as aggressive as possible and get as many realistic throws in that I can.

Or since I use a charge character, I’d practice my bread and butter combos with as LITTLE charge as possible (cus charging d/b for a full 3-5 seconds and being perfectly calm REALLY is unrealistic practice for a real match) so that I’d know exactly when I will have a charge to go for that combo, and when I should use another attack.

The single biggest thing that has helped me improve is that a few dedicated ST players in Seattle have worked on getting more people into the scene and into tournaments. You can’t ever really expect to be good if you have no one to play, it’s like trying to get into the NBA when all you do is dribbling drills. Your pattern recognition abilities will improve just because you have a mental “database” of how the match typically goes down, and if there’s less you don’t know about the match, you will have more ability to manipulate it’s outcome to a favorable one for you.

If you’re talking about people who play online, most of them are garbage at games, playing online (at least, Kaillera) is not a good way to learn the games. They are really two different games online and off. Most people online are mediocre at best and abuse laggy-tactics that would get them raped at the arcade, and they’re also often complete jerks. You need to connect with a scene of people who play your games in-person.

If you have a dedicated scene in your local area playing your game, you should be able to get away with very little practice mode, and if you are in training mode, hopefully you have a buddy there who can control the 2player so you can have interactive training mode. I can’t stress enough how much that has helped me improve, when a better player sat me down for about 3 hours straight in training mode, just teaching me stuff I didn’t know.

For example, if you play ST get the dreamcast version, go to training mode, have a partner pick the same character as you, and then have him control player 1 and you player 2. Then repeatedly have him try to tick throw you. If you wait after the tick and then time a throw right, you will actually have the advantage to throw him back. This is called counter-throwing, and practicing this technique with a friend in ST GREATLY improved my skill because it helped me get thrown a lot less.

Really it all boils down to training SMART and having a proper support network. Where do you live and who is the best player you know? For your execution problems, what type of controller are you using? A better player has informed me of a couple errors I make in execution (I have a HORRIBLE habit of taking my hand off the joystick sometimes, and also I lift my fingers way up before pressing down to press a button, I am trying to train myself out of that). Another bad habit I have is mashing my way through combos, since I am not very good at timing I will just spam inputs, so for example on balrog’s d. mk, d. mp, low rush combo, I probably do a total of 6 button presses. This is a baaad thing. Try having a better player watch your hands and see what you’re doing wrong.

Good luck man, because many people instead of asking how they can improve, have the scrub mentality of “They are just better” or making excuses for why they aren’t better. I’d say no matter what your current skill level,you are not a real scrub, you’re just a beginner. :karate:

8

i don’t buy into that genetics argument…if people want to get better they will. some people just don’t have the desire to go further down that road.

9

I’ve been playing fighting games since about 1992, if I was suddenly going to develop good execution it would’ve happened by now. I know my limits to what I can execute and my reaction time, there’s not much I can do about it, I don’t have the best reflexes ever.

10

some people have to play extensively to get that timing; others just have it. regardless, if you want that precise timing enough you will get it.

11

Play. Ask Questions. Listen. Learn. Play More.

Dedication. Dedication. Dedication.

Finding other people to be as dedicated/more dedicated than you.

You and “your scene” will only thrive if the other people around you want it to thrive.

Learn from eachothers mistakes, help eachother out.

Do whatever you can.

Watch videos. Travel for tourneys. Study other people before playing (videos of other people also help). Go to local tourneys, HOLD local tournies. Know preppy.

…and training mode.

-SH

12

BChan…

Anyway, to get better play people.

Don’t look for tutorials on what moves are good and whatnot… play the games and figure it out for yourself. Don’t play just to win while practicing. Play to figure stuff out. Throw out different pokes at different ranges and see what works in what situations.

Moves have abstract properties that can’t really be summed up in a FAQ. You have to have a feel for them, and to do that, you’re going to need to experiment.

13

he knows he’s a scrub. he’s only onto CvS2 so hard because the people he loves following in Maryland play it.

edit: yo contact me somehow. you seem impossible to get in touch with

14

So you don’t consider playing fighting games for 16 years “extensively”? I simply am not genetically gifted at hand eye coordination compared to some people who started playing fighting games MUCH more recently and just naturally can do much more difficult combos than I could ever hope to do.

It’s no different than me trying to be in the NBA, it’s not a matter of practice or willpower.

15

Yeah, he’s a scrub, but the point is that some people are naturally more inclined to fighters.

That nigga’s been playing for a good year and a half now, and he still just doesn’t get it.

I’m gonna sign on AIM in a second. Just hit me up on there.

16

I get what you’re saying, but I’m a firm believer, in this case anyway, the only limits on yourself, are the ones you placed on yourself.

17

Bullshit. Some people just can’t do it. Playing basketball everyday will not make you the next Jordan/Magic/Larry Bird and video games are no different. You will improve, but you will eventually hit a plateau. Some people can’t comprehend calculus and no amount of homework is ever going to push them to the point where they “get it.”

18

There is a certain amount of natural talent people can have for certain things. Some people are excellent at drawing, while others despite how hard they practice cannot draw for shit.

Same with fighting games. You can know all the frame data and set ups in the game, but if you can’t execute any of it then you have a long uphill battle. However, you can always improve. More importantly, you must realize your weaknesses and strengths, and compensate accordingly.

19

how long have you “really” been playing. everybody played SF2; you could say I’ve been playing for 12 years as well. and yes; if you really cared enough about executing properly you would work to get it. street fighter is no NBA or NFL, that’s the allure of it.

20

I know WHY you say this because you never want to be mentally limiting yourself, but in this case I’m not. I’ve been playing fighting games enthusiastically since SF2, and execution is my weak point and always has been.

I do pretty good anyways, but I think I find other ways to cover up my weakness in execution.