No, its like teaching people to read. People have a series of ideas that they’re fixated on (Look at all the ‘quit dumbing the game down, quit catering to scrubs’) posts.
You apparently have to start from the very basic level and explain why certain priniciples are important to moving fighting games into the future.
So for example, people equate ease with ‘dumbing the game down’. That’s not true, but it’s so embedded in the culture that you have to go to great lengths (ie the hypothetical) to get people to admit that it can be a positive.
Still, when I’m getting Godwined, or even better Godwin-was-bettered, its the tip that its time to move on to the next discussion.
My summary would be this:
There is an all too sizable and vocal group on SRK that doesn’t want fighting games to have a future.
The fact that the most common answer to this question was ‘we want games to go backward!’ is a pretty stinging rebuke to the entire scene, when you get right down to it.
Ultimately you can try to learn and understand, or you can stick with your comfortable myths and just go after the dissent.
Once again, you make dumb generalizations off of the forum, about capcom games no less, which HAVE gone down the shitter. To these guys, capcom IS fighting games, and their games are ass NOW, so want them to be good like BACK THEN.
Arcsys
Type moon
Frenchbread
Examu
these are companies that are not getting those same responses. Hell, even kof98 and kog2002 players enjoy 13. Capcom is the ONLY one that has this problem.
the problem is that you cant make a point based on a hypothetical scenario that is not possible
its ridiculous
also they already told you what they mean with dumbing
making options weak because casuals cant take the time to learn the fucking game
why in the name of belphegor are throws made weak, why longer startups, less range, more throw windows
why make the walk speed of the characters slower, why the bigger arcs, why the zoning is weaker with every iteration
why the spacing game is weaker
why make auto tech gems, why make auto block gems
why nerf sentinel when he wasnt a problem at all
there are a lot of stuff happening showing that (capcom) games are being dumbed down
why comeback mechanics that potentially dont teach you how to play the game better
why shortcuts?
you still think that he is “tsundere”?
sadly stupidity is not a bannable offense on srk
yet calling out the stupidity is one
never had a problem with bb, since asw stated that bb was the antithesis of gg
also, the mechanics found on bb make sense in the long run
Correct, I do believe that these are more-or-less universal points for improvement (although I would roll “Netcode” into “Online Experience”)
For my “Etc.” I would like to see an overall improvement in user feedback. Often times games don’t express why something didn’t work, only that it didn’t work. Even though I don’t enjoy playing BlazBlue, I thought the symbols for low attacks and breakable throws were excellent. SF4, on the other hand, does a terrible job with communicating why something didn’t juggle, why a link didn’t work, why character A entered a dizzy state with X damage while character B did not when receiving X+1. Invulnerability frames, crushes, opportunities to tech throws… the fighting game genre needs to work on how these things are communicated to the user.
As insane and essentially random as it was, the “no cheese” icon in Primal Rage was interesting. Instead of a move just appearing like it didn’t work, the user was given feedback that the designers thought that application was “cheesy”, and therefore, against the rules of the game. I wouldn’t necessarily advocate this system, but the attempt to communicate the game’s rules in a different way was novel at the very least.
everyone is free to like or not a game
as long as people keep civil and understand that, because they dont like it it doesnt mean that is bad
unless of course, the game doesnt have any redeemable point desing or fun wise
I think developers should stop making awesome fighting games and then completely fucking ruiningthem at the last minute with shitty shitty SHITTY decisions.
If we assume that having a FG that is popular with dumbed down options would get new people interested in the entire genre at a competitive level, is that really a bad thing in the long run? Not every FG has to be a flag-bearer for how every FG is going to be after it
Seeing people who started with some incarnation of Smash and ended up becoming competitive in traditional FGs isn’t an uncommon thing nowadays, for example
That’s what happens when your entire argument is about basic principles. You think execution is fundamentally bad. Shoultz thinks execution is fundamentally good. You’re surprised that this causes conflict?
It doesn’t help that your arguments tend to be very broad and vaguely defined. I asked for specifics a couple pages back, and you ignored that post. I’ll ask again: how do you know exactly when something becomes too hard? Are 1f links okay? 2f links? At exactly what point is a game forgiving enough for you? I know you’re going to say if you can make it easier without sacrificing quality, you should. And that’s great, but how do you do that? You’ve repeatedly said you aren’t against traditional inputs, so how in the world is a TK unacceptable compared to a DP?
I want specifics, not over-broad first-principle philosophizing. Nobody is arguing with you because they want to see games made hard as fuck for no reason.
