Every single thing you just said would take maybe a week tops for someone serious about learning to grasp.
I’d like to think MvC2 was a special case. In the eyes of many, MvC2 is considered to be a freak accident. Dissecting a shitty fighting game like Tattoo Assassins won’t change the fact that the game is still ass. Most people think DOA is ass but dissecting that game won’t make it any better. It will still be considered trash by the majority.
Except that I don’t give two shits about the **current **community. I don’t care about the current community because I don’t care about the current fighting games being played today. I care about the community, pre-SF4. I care about the quality of games rather than the quantity of people playing them.
So if SF2 was easy enough to play to begin with, why in the fuck did Capcom need to make SF4 even easier? Oh, that’s right, because they wanted money.
The sticking point is what we define as “better”.
For me, a “better” fighting game is one where I can play more people who offer more interesting challenges to overcome. A game should transition from the basic introduction phase to a phase where players are making informed decisions quickly, and have enough diversity in content and available strategies that a player can express their creativity through play.
I don’t value theoretical purity. I don’t care if a game is considered “scrubby” (whatever that means) by high level players of other games. I don’t care if one community or another doesn’t take the game seriously or treat it like a career. I do care about being able to play the game against players in the same room, and I want those players to feel that the game is fair, entertaining, and that their inability to perform feats of dexterity isn’t going to exclude them from playing.
So, a “better” game is one that encourages more players to feel the same way I do about fighting games.
As someone who started in 92, I agree. The current community is enough to have made me largely quit FG’s. Especially on the local level. SFIV did revive the local scene, but they are different people. They all play 2009+ Capcom games, and nothing else matters. But ask them, they ‘hate’ those games, yeah, a funny bunch.
As compared to 30-seconds to 5 minutes. It’s not that SF4 is so very hard, its that SF2 was just that very easy.
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[]Your attitude is self-destructive then, which is fine, nobody is gonna take away the games you like, and if they’re good enough they’ll always have players.
[]They made it easier and harder, that’s kind of the thing. The complexity they added is really more significant than the execution ease they slid back in. This ‘they dumbed down games and made them scrubby and easy’ is mainly based on the excessively complex games of the mid-2000s and the complexity that players added to otherwise simple games. SF4 is many times more complex than ST ever was, although its still not a good thing in my opinion.
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Edit: I always end up feeling like people pine for the days when the community felt like this exclusive club, and actually dislike that it’s gained a measure of mainstream acceptance. I note that old furries feel the same way.
The amount of players playing x game doesn’t make a shitty game any better. A shitty game is a shitty game, regardless of how many people are playing it.
Making fighting games “better” usually relies heavily on the gameplay/mechanics. You’ll notice a connection between sequels and the fact that they expand the amount of mechanics and/or refine the gameplay. There are exceptions to everything but generally, this is how it is.
So if players are having trouble with executing moves, what’s stopping them from going into training mode and practicing their execution until they can do it consistently? If they don’t want to sit in training mode, then they’d better be prepared to lose a lot while trying to work on their execution as they play.
Everything is hard at first but over time, with practice and repetition, it will become easier, eventually. The problem is that people don’t want to have to put in the work to get good at fighting games, instead, they want instant gratification. They don’t want to work, they want to have fun. Being good at a game and winning fun too, especially if all of your hard work, blood, sweat and tears pays off in the end.
Honestly, if the current community died, I wouldn’t care, nor would I miss it.
Other than money, I see no good reason as to why Capcom needed to make the controls easier. They were perfectly fine the way they were. Don’t try to fix something if it ain’t broke because you’ll probably end up making it worse.
Make the game easier to play > more players buy the game > more money for Capcom. It’s simple, really.
If fighting games became mainstream back when the old games were being played, I’d be perfectly fine with that. In fact, I’d be happy as fuck. Except, I don’t want no stupid eSports. Fuck eSports.
Again, that all depends on what your definition of “better” is. It’s a completely subjective value judgment, and it depends on what you believe the goal of a game is. You previously stated that playing against the CPU was sufficient for you to enjoy a game. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that and I think it’s cool that you can continue to find value in an old game without human competition.
That would not satisfy my criteria for a fighting game. I need to play against people, and I want those people to be on equal footing to me, regardless of time spent in practice (beyond the basic stages of learning). I don’t want to have to search diligently to find the rare person who is at my level, I want those people to be everywhere I turn, so I can meet new people and enjoy my hobby with a plethora of different folks.
I don’t view fighting games as an engine that is used to determine who is better, as frustrating people and making them feel like they wasted their time on an exercise they do not understand has no value to me. The value is in the playing, not determining who is the victor. As game designer Reiner Knizia said, “When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning.” As such, I don’t need a game with more/less mechanics or stringent barriers to entry in order to find it valuable, I just need to function as a vehicle for interacting with people and engaging their mind through play.
I understand that my criteria are not yours, but I believe you’ll find that accepting that different people have different expectations of games will be easier than trying to convince somebody that their expectations are wrong.
I’ve seen you throw this shit around before, and I’m tired of it.
DUDE, why are you still here? Leave
If you hate the current scene so damn much, LEAVE
No one will miss you. I sure as shit won’t.
Point taken. I tend to look at some things a little too objectively sometimes.
Nothing wrong with that and I agree with you to a point. I got good at ST by playing HDR online. Even though ST and HDR are two different games, I think that they’re similar enough, to the point where you can switch between them. Luckily, my character hasn’t changed much except for the fact that his range and damage got a little nerfed.
I know I said that I was using the ST CPU to train for EVO, which I still am, but the but CPU has unfair execution an reactions. This forces me to play differently compared to if I was playing a human. I’ve tick throwed the CPU once or twice but every other time it throws me. So certain tactics simply won’t work on it. So I plan to still play HDR online (which is a bad idea for an ST-only tournament) but having the correct mindset (vs. CPU or human) is important as well.
Why would I leave? There are still communities for the games that I play. Rather than leave, I just choose not to be a part of the current community or participate in their games. SRK has changed and turned to shit but I’m still here because I enjoy participating in discussions, such as this one.
What right would an 09’er have to tell a person around from just around the beginning of the SRK community to get lost? LMAO
Graphics matter. It’s a video game after all. Presentation is half of it.
It’s not even about graphics, it’s about making something that’s visually appealing. SF4 has good graphics but still looks like shit to me.
I look @ a game like tetris and how competitive it is with the most bare minimum of graphic settings. That game is fucking SERIOUS! I used to play on tetrisfriends.com a few hours a day. Even though the graphics are below sub par, the game play is awesome and its great online. Its a testament to how graphics aren’t 100% necessary IMO. The game itself is endless\versus and the online is pretty good that it makes you forget about how shitty the graphics are.
I’ve played tetrisfriends.com longer than I have any DOA game. Since the engine is soooo bad, I can’t stand to play it and I would much rather play tetrisfriends.com online.
graphics to some extent matter but if you’re fighting game graphics was of SF alpha 3 quality which is 10+ years old, then you’re fine IMO. I think the quality of the game play and the net code are far more important things for developers to focus on for competitive games
single player games like skyrim are built around intensive graphics. There is no 2p mode so there has to be a selling point to make people buy it. Competitive games need to focus on game play more than graphics because that is the core of the game. Its why more people till this day will play ST than any DOA game
Yeah, graphics sure don’t matter in competitive games, is that why Battlefield 3, Starcraft 2, and now Diablo 3(which has pvp) all have updated and state of the art graphic engines? Yeah, we get it, you’d play fighting games even if it was two stick figures fighting in a black room, fortunately the majority of gamers don’t want that shit and actually expect games to look GOOD. Graphics aren’t everything, but you’re fucking delusional if you think they don’t matter at all. If SF4 came out and played like Hyper Fighting yet used SF1’s graphics, this site would have thrown a fucking massive bitchfit and accused Capcom of being lazy as shit and trolling gamers.
I seriously cannot stand people who try to pull this goofy “omfg I don’t care about graphics at all, gameplay>>>>>>>>>>>>ALL!!!” bullshit, when we know that’s fucking false. A solid product generally aims to satisfy in all areas, not pick one and say fuck the rest. Using Tetris as a comparison to DOA, really? Tetris actually looked great graphically at the time it came out, so using it as some example of “shit graphics” is fucking laughable, that’s like me comparing fucking diablo 1 to diablo 3 and going “the gfx were shit but it was a damn good game!” Yeah no, because when the game came out, diablo 1 was considered to be pretty fucking good visually, back then no one said “oh man it looks like shit!”
Also lol at using DOA as a whipping post, considering more people play DOA for FUN than they do Darkstalkers; which apparently eats you up inside and enrages you, hence your rants at people asking why they don’t play on GGPO. Because god forbid most normal people don’t give a fuck about your “oh man it’s so hardkore” obscure fighting game that like 5 dudes play online lmfao
Again, here’s shin akuma and shoultzula’s ideal fighting game
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8211/idealfighter.jpg
So hardkore guys!
False claimers claiming they play a game they don’t play.
Join Date: Today
Messages:2
I assume you joined just to argue in a couple threads right? Seeing as how they are both aggressive posts.
The guy tried to act as if good graphics are only needed for singleplayer games, not competitive games, I listed several competitive games with great graphics engines. So much for his argument. Oh boy, we should just have fighters stuck with dated graphics to appease some hardcore faggot, LOL This is the same guy who whines day in and day out about people not playing some old shitty game on GGPO, what can you expect really? Honestly, if these wannabe hardkore bitches hate new fighters so much, how about they make their own fucking game, with nothing but diff colored hitboxes, no stages, no music, and then try to sell that shit and see how well it does.
Yeah, let’s keep old as fuck dated graphics to satisfy wannabe hardkore pillow biters like yourself lol. Maybe next you’ll tell the guys behind Battlefield 3/Guild Wars 2/Starcraft 2 they should have kept whatever graphics engine they used 10 years ago, because so long as the game is competitive who cares how it looks. lmfao
I swear fighters are the only genre where the “hardcore” fans actually don’t want better graphics. If you had your way, Tekken Tag 2 would be looking like fucking Tekken 2.
VF is another game that does it well too. Good graphics and solid game play
I just look @ graphics as a burden to capcom. They can’t even get games balanced properly as there is a new version of SF every year. The online for most of their games is terrible too.
They can’t do basics right, if you put more on their plate it will only affect the games even more. Some companies can handle it, definitely not capcom
Make it “Claim to”, its really about self-definition and fronting.
Edit: I guess Schoulz pulling back and doing a “I never said that” means he’s accepting the point though? Should take the wins where you get them