Trying to discover lots of oki potential. How can I test in training mode whether or not I found a meaty move or safe jump setup? If I set the dummy to jump should the move prevent them from jumping? I think there is something about being able to block reversals too?
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In SF4 jumps in any direction universally had 4 frames of startup before being considered airborne. I would assume SFxT is similar as there wouldn’t really be a reason to change this mechanic. That considered, all setting the dummy to jump would prove is that your meaty connected within the 4 frame window between their wake-up and their becoming airborne. A perfect meaty connects with last active frame of the move in use. To test whether your meaty setup works properly, you should record a dummy performing the setup, and perform an invincible reversal with startup equal to the recovery of your meaty attack +1. If the dummy blocks the reversal, your setup is confirmed to be timed perfectly. If your dummy is hit by the reversal, you need to determine how many frames you’re missing the perfect meaty by using other reversals with longer start-up.
Safe jump setups can be tested much more simply. Record a dummy performing the setup and execute the reversal you’re trying to safe jump on the character you’re controlling. If your dummy is hit by the reversal, your setup doesn’t work. If your dummy blocks the reversal, your setup does work. You should note that anything equal to or less than a three frame reversal is impossible to safe jump. You should also note that I’m speaking from experience with the SF4 engine on this subject. I haven’t tested it, but I’m fairly certain jumping attacks cause significantly more recovery upon landing than empty jumps in this game. This may make safe jumping either more strict or impossible in SFxT.
I answered this here because it is a somewhat advanced question, but I’m not sure if the mods would consider this better suited for posting in the newbie thread or general discussion threads.
Just to add…
A safe jump hits meaty but not all meaty jump attacks are safe jumps. Also, you can’t safe jump vs shoryuken because when you attack in the air you are vulnerable for 3 landing frames. So test vs Cammy’s Cannon Spike (4f), Hwoarang’s DP (5f), Poison’s EX DP (6f), Lili’s EX Angel Knee (7f) and Kuma’s EX Frolicking Bear (8f).
Safe jumps vs techable knockdowns are extremely risky as the defending player has a large window to tech. If they slightly delay their quickstand by 2-3 frames they’ll be able to jump out as your jump in won’t be meaty anymore. So that’s why people usually safe jump off untechable knockdowns (throws, sweeps, ground/wall bounce, Supers etc).
You can whiff normals/throw/specials and use dash/backdash/jump/taunts to get an “automatic timing”. Those types of safe jumps are the most reliable ones since you don’t really need to time anything. Safe jumps with “manual timing” (where you need to walk a few steps or wait 2-3 frames before jumping) are not as reliable because the timing is easy to miss. The timing of safe jumps can be very strict. And if you jump a couple of frames too late it can mean 50% of your ass in this game.
Don’t get your hopes up, not every character has an ideal knockdown that allows for automatic safe jumping. But they still do exist. They are just harder to pull off and more rare than AE.
Finally, a safe jump setup alone is not good enough because of roll recovery, so make sure you can “fake safe jump” and cross-up the roll instead. And ideally have a safe jump setup vs roll recovery as well. Though I admit I’m not sure if rolls can be delayed like quickstand… I never noticed any difference in timing for rolls.
Have you actually tested any safe jump setups against four frame reversals? Maybe it’s just my imagination but it seems like jumping attacks have significantly more recovery in SFxT.
I tested a recording with a Ryu dummy jumping in against Cammy. It was manual timing since I couldn’t ever find a consistent setup to use in a match, but you CAN safe jump 4 frame reversals in this game. The dummy blocks my L, M, EX reversal Cannon Spike in time, stuffs H. If I hold back, the jump in is blocked, so it’s definitely hitting meaty. (This as opposed to it whiffing, which would mean Ryu could only block because the jump in was too early)
I think it might seem like there’s more recovery after jump ins because if you whiff one, people immediately start mashing jab and there’s a good chance of getting hit by that when it’s so common. In SF whiffed jumps normally caused both players to knee-jerk stand tech, so you couldn’t really see how long it was taking you to recover because both players are teching at the same time. That’s something that threw me off anyway…
I tried delaying the tech roll and it doesn’t seem possible. You always roll at the exact same moment no matter how early or late you start holding forward.
Yeah I don’t have many safe jump setups with my main team but I found a couple of ones with Christie.
One vs quickstand and the other vs roll recovery. Both with automatic timing. I hit Cammy if she tries to block or jump away, and if she reversals I block LK Cannon Spike which has 4 frames of start up.
Ugh the difficulty. I think I will leave labwork to others.
Thanks everyone.
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