Hori Hayabusa microswitch advise

Hi all,

Would like to make the Hori Hayabusa silent with the use of other micro switches without soldering.

Had this in mind a JLF .187 Micro Harness:

And some drilling into the side casing of the hayabusa so as to let the .187 wires through. This will work correct me if im wrong…

For the micro switch i have chosen these 2 (if you know better ones please let me know)

  1. D44X Cherry Button Microswitch With 4.8mm Terminals
    https://www.arcadeworlduk.com/products/d44x-cherry-button-microswitch-with-4-8mm-terminals.html

  2. Omron D2RV-G but which one, there are several types of this D2RV switch correct?

I already have a kowal actuator installed in the Hayabusa (had to grind the edge of the actuator)
If there are things i need to look out for ie micro switch and kowal actuator compatibility let me know.

Your feedback and advise is much appreciated.

Any one?

D2RV series by omron are reed switches they have nothing to do with the snap action mechanism of V series omron and zf/cherry miniature snap microswitches .
There’s only one type of D2RV-G, “-G” suffix just means it’s the strongest operating force pin plunger available (100gf) below that we have no suffix at all (just d2rv, at 50gf) and below we have 25gf pin plunger model with “-E” suffix.
Reed micro switches are basically just miniature leaf switches within a sealed glass ampoule, some of the metal blades are ferromagnetic others not and when a tiny magnet or current driven coil gets close, contact is made . Snap action are different and are 100% mechanical with miniature coiled and cantilever springs (some of which are in a preloaded state) combined such that a contact blade hits either normally open or normally closed internal contact points when you reach operating point, after which it needs to reset by releasing the pin plunger over a certain distance due to hysteresis of the mechanism . Reed system are virtually noiseless whatever the operating force needed, the only parts susceptible to generate a clacking noise (depending on joystick design, if it permits bottoming out the switches for example in some american sticks) would be the plastic pin plunger and casing , but the mech inside will not.
the snap switch preloaded assembly can get noisy when the operating force is medium-high, whereas low force snap switches make a barely audible snap noise (but sill present) and tactile feedback is practically nonexistent.
Reed seems more precise in theory even though the D2RV-G omron needs max 100gram force to actuate , alas according to tech sheet
https://www.components.omron.com/web/en/product-detail?partNumber=D2RV
the reed switch in question actuates much deeper than the snap version omron V and cherry/zf d44x you mentioned, which has been confirmed also (tech details aside) by countless seasoned players who felt the difference.
See zf switches here (now black, whereas cherry where off-white / cream)
http://switches-sensors.zf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2018_7-Miniature-D4-Datasheet_1_2.pdf

We can see the ZF/Cherry D44X that interest you has 0.75CN operating force (~76.5 gram force) and is boasted by vendors as having a “soft click/smooth mechanism” , but it doesn’t mean it’s noiseless like a reed or like an ultra low actuating force snap switch (like 20gram taiwanese zippy switches) which are sold as “noiseless” despite being snap action but that’s because the mechanism is very weak , beyond what many other brands propose in terms of low operating forces. The downside of zippy snap ultra low force snap switches is they have a very deep actuation point barely above D2RV reed type, plus the zippys have some tolerance issues the pin plunger wiggles a lot in the overly wide aperture .

Details:
D2RV-G has 100gf operating force, pretravel distance (distance the plunger goes down until contact is made) is 1.6mm max, distance to reset after contact is made (when releasing the plunger as it rises back to an operable position) is 0.8mm maximum (this distance is called “differential movement” ). Operating point (height at which electric contact takes place, measured between horizontal line passing by bottom mounting hole center -parallel to bottom side- and plunger pin top) is 14±0.6mm.

Comparing with ZF D44X at ~76gf operating force, pretravel is only max 1.2mm maximum to reach contact point (0.4mm less than omron d2rv-g) , differential movement is only max 0.3mm (0.5mm less distance to reset than d2rv-g) . Due to the fact that the joystick shaft is a lever, these seemingly small actuation distances that may seem so similar and unimportant on paper to the unitiated will translate during play to a couple of mm’s that will be noticeable in engage and throw, depending also a lot on shaft length, pivot point location and gate design if present .

omron D2RV type are also uber expensive considering the only benefit is just absence of sound/feedback and so-so actuation specs (they actuate far too deep so be ready for big oversized actuators or just riding the gate).
Sanwa allegedly had slightly modified D2RV-G switches as custom order by OMron for the latest “silent” JLF iterations but you won;t be able to buy them seperately as sanwa does not want customers to break the “guarantee” seal sticker on said latest gen silent sticks to discourage switch mods.

you could compensate deep actuating switches like D2RV-G with an oversized actuator, I see you use a kowal (just hope it’s v2 in nylon since first version was made of shit quality plastic that wore down like crazy) .Kowal actuator has cylindrical top and bottom sections (top for switches, bottom to contact gate) whereas jlf stock type and similar oversized actuators have top part slanted (conical) and bottom part cylindrical (contacting gate).
The slanted design (conical) of the latter permits a more progressive actuation (even if oversized, within reasonable limits) especially in diagonals , whereas the kowal cylindrical actuator is more immediate when “engaging” but that is a question of personal taste.

Up to you to mix and match now.
Also for further information, try the SRK search engine, the matters have been discussed before, especially with silent JLF models and vendor specific cherry JLF mods.

***you grinded the kowal actuator sides? what for? it makes the sides lumpy and they will not slide or rotate smoothly on switch pins!

Hello,

Thank you for the reply.

There is a whole science behind switches it seems and frankly i’m not as versed as you are :neutral_face::neutral_face:
So if you change switches it may have a negative effect which translates to my current “muscle memory” not hitting moves.

So the DRV on the silent JLF are not for sale bummer and i was prowling the net for a store who had them and i had no luck no i know why it’s an exclusive for JLF silent good that you point that one out otherwise i would be still looking for it:rofl: Guess that’s out of the picture.

I do like the JLF silent with the DRV switches played it allot on Guilty Gear XRD until i moved on to SF5 and i needed a stick both for shorter throw and engage yet the options i have makes to much noise ie Seimitsu LS-40-01 and LS-58-01 same with the Hayabusa.

Regardless i ordered the D44X switches i might as well try them for the Hayabusa i also ordered a whole set of PAS actuators for JLF and Seimitsu sticks see how that pans out

I have no idea which version of Kowal actuator i have it’s black nylon…? and i had to vile it so it would fit it did shorten the throw no more “loose” stick. I wonder if the PAS jlf actuators will fit the Hayabusa since they resemble the modded Kowal actuator guess i have to try it when i have them.

Ordered everything including the JLF harness. So will try them out for sure.

I will try next time the search engine which i did btw but next time more in depth search.

Thanks again for your feedback much appreciated.

Any update on using the Cherry D44x switches? I’m thinking of going the same route. The Hori Hayabusa microswitch clicks are annoying the wife.

Hi,

Well no mainly because i finally have my Magenta Joystick so far from just fiddling with it for 20 min till i change the stock spring to a less stiff one 1lbs its a very smooth silent precision stick that you can customize with software for that sweet short throw or whatever you want.

This left the Hori switches on hold for now i will def start putting the switches either this week or the next week. Just to feel the difference i don’t think it will be my main stick even when its silent but the option is there with the switches.

I will update this or next week just to give feedback on it, unless you done already the new switches your self to know the difference.

Cheers

1 Like

Looking forward to your review of the new switches. I haven’t ordered them, so I’m curious. :slight_smile:

Hello,

Update:

I placed the new switches (cherry D44X) took me a while it was not difficult, just a bit time consuming for me.
You still need to mod the SIDE casing of the Hori Hayabusa meaning cutting holes to which the wires of the JLF.187 harness can pass through but this is very easy to do.

If your stock 5 pin is located at the lower left corner of your stick when you open up your case in my case its the Madcatz TE2.

Colors for directions:

  • Left up corner: orange
  • right up corner: yellow
  • left down corner: green
  • right down corner: red

The switches are way more quieter then the stock ones but still audible, and compared to regular JLF its still way more quiet my silent buttons do more noise then the switches them selves so thats a BIG plus! They make hardly any noise its a faint clicking very obscured clicking…

Did it change the properties of the stick it self? Its been a while since i last touched the Hayabusa but i could do everything i need to do i def need a stiffer spring good thing i ordered some PAS 1.5lb springs that should do the trick. All in all give it a try i think if i would put my time into the stick i would love it but that is reserved for the Magenta.

Make sure you keep your stock switches if you want to go back :smiley:
Oh i forgot i do use a Kowal 1mm actuator that i had to round the edges (shaving) so don’t know the impact when you use the stock hayabusa actuator with these switches ie actuation so keep that in mind.

If you want a real silent joystick (my number 2 stick)

I highly recommend you the Sanwa JLF-TPRG-8AYT-SK this is the older version since it does not give you an actuation feedback but i still love this stick with a Kowal actuator and 1.5lb spring its so good.

If you want a silent stick with actuation feedback then pick the newly released one:

Sanwa JLF-TPRG-8BYT-SK

Hope this helps

Update is done see above maybe you didnt see it since i did not quote you.

Thank you so much for the update. I’ll try the cherry switches. I may as well try a Kowal actuator too. By the way, di you notice any stick bounce and accidental inputs with the Kowal actuator (with or without the softer cherry switches)?

Well it took me some time to get used to the Hayabusa to be honest comparing to Sanwa JLF silent i noticed i sometimes miss my quarter circle inputs more often then with the JLF silent. Then again this may has something to do with the Hayabusa being “lose” whats the word for it it takes “longer” to actuate the switch the Kowal actuator did relieved it a bit i had to adjust which i did and started to like the stick except the sound:)

One thing i had some major difficulty for example Sagat combo in SF5

Corner: J.HK - S.HK - C.MP - Tiger knee - Tiger uppercut - super (2 x QCF+K) instead of doing uppercut it did a dash forward everytime this did not happen with the JLF ive read somewhere that there are some issues with the Hayabusa in particular fast movements ie going from neutral to a special in a very fast succession. My english isnt my native language srry. Yet i adjusted just fine its a good stick once you know it.
Other then that no accidental inputs that i know of.

And no no bounce that i know of you mean like the bounce from a Seimitsu LS-32?

Remember if you use a Kowal Actuator you must grind the sides so it will fit the stick there are tutorials how to do it with pics before and after. Good luck!

Sorry, let me clarify - What I meant with the joystick bounce hitting inputs is for example : when you hold left and release the lever, it will bounce and hit the right microswitch.
The lighter actuation of the microswitch and bigger Kowal actuator might have this problem. Perhaps?

I see from my experience i did not had this issue good example:

Kara cancel with tiger shots which increase the range of sagat getting closer while at the same time doing tiger shots normal tiger shots keeps him static in one place

Kara shots: forward + MK – quick release back to neutral – then input fast half circle forward + p

I still kind of still slightly touches the stick even when going to neutral for the kara cancel so this may not be the best example. Other then that i did not have the issue you told me but i am aware of it through other posters i think it depends of what type of game you play and or what type of character i only played Guilty Gear XRD and SF5 with the Hayabusa. And Hayabusa sucks @ss with GG XRD with Potemkins hardest combo in the game it kept failing me time and time again extreme fast inputs it just couldnt cope. yet my other sticks no problem (LS-40, LS-58, JLF silent). But thats me others could do the combo with the Hayabusa…

As with the new switches srry did not test in depth just 30 min of playing and so far no real issues.

Personally there are better sticks out there if you ask me even though its a good stick but not one of my favorite (yet…)

Ah ok. I do my lever tests on Training mode with input display ON. I hold one side and release, then see if another input is displayed.

I see, if you changed your switches to the Cherry ones i am curious what your findings are so please share them here. So i or any one else interested in modding this stick can see what to look out for pro’s and cons.