Let me correct something Honda can store a Charge. let me see if i can explain, perhaps there is just a difference in what storing is in this situation. If i do Sumo Smash from the down back to the up back position im still charged for a headbutt when i land i immediately do a fierce head butt and end up on the other side of the player. i may have video of this ill check it out. i do this all the time so its not a fluke thing… works great against Blanka after a blocked BS. go right into HButt. Many are expecting a throw or hands no one ever expects a headbutt.
I do that all the time (Sumo Smash into immediate fierce headbutt) but it seems that 95% of the time the enemy will backjump over the headbutt and throw me for my trouble during my headbutt recovery, so maybe it’s worth delaying that headbutt just a little bit to avoid that. The shotos are especially dangerous for this it seems.
Sorry man but you’re wrong on this one. Blanka can store a charge with forward hops and O Guile can store a charge with knee bazooka. Both are forward progress pressure moves. Not as powerful as Rogs but still the same thing.
~Decoy
Actually Honda can’t store charge for the headbutt, it’s just that Honda’s charge moves require the least charge time of any charge moves in the game (well, tied for that anyway), so you when you start the buttslam and immediately start holding down-back again, by the time you land and recover, you’ve already charged long enough to do headbutt, buttslam, and super.
Also, Blanka can’t store charge. Toward hop to ball is done with vertical ball, and it’s done by holding down to start charging for the vertical ball, hold down-toward plus kicks to get the hop and keep charging for vertical ball, and then press up+kick. And Guile isn’t storing for the same reason, he’s still charging while that move is going on.
Wait wait, I think we’re getting confused here.
When Honda does a headbutt, he has to lose his downcharge, because you can’t input it as “charge db, df+punch”. So you can’t really do headbutt -> immediate buttslam.
But Honda can perfectly well do a buttslam as “charge db, ub+kick”, so you can do buttslam -> immediate headbutt without ever losing your backcharge. Sure, you can also just start your charge really fast during the buttslam, but why bother? :wgrin:
That’s what’s happening, you’re charging for a new headbutt. You’re not keeping your headbutt charge from before the buttslam, you’re charging for a new headbutt and by the time your buttslam finishes, you’re fully charged for a new headbutt. You can also charge for another buttslam or for a super during a buttslam.
You’re right on both counts. I’m using the wrong terms. Blanka and Guile can maintain a charge while performing forward progress moves. NOT store as in the Honda and Chun glitches.
~Decoy
O rly? How do you distinguish between the two if their effects are identical (i.e. you can headbutt as soon as you land from a db->ub+K buttslam without letting go of “back”)?
Might be kind of a pointless question but I’m curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion.
What he said x 2.
-Fatboy
Because you can do the same thing with buttlsam. Do the motion for buttslam and immediately go back to down in the same way Guile maximizes sonic booms (so, down charge, up-down+kick) and you’ll be able to do buttslam immediately on landing. This makes me think that in holding back while doing buttslam motion, you’re not storing the back charge, you’re merely beginning a new headbutt charge as soon as possible after the buttslam input, and by the time buttslam is done, you have access to a new headbutt.
#1 there is no hold back immediately, i never stop holding back trust me the headbutt is charged at all times in this situation. DB +UB still keeps the headbutt charged, you can actually go from db to uf then release headbutt as you land from Buttsmash meaning that it HAD to share the charge… here is another way i know Hondas headbutt has strange priorities in this situation. Honda does a super motion FBF and charges his super … correct… ? then Honda can jump backwards as long as he is holding up back while doing this this will keep his Super charged. then when he lands you can start holding forward again. and release super without doing the motion again.
I would like advice against defensive Balrogs, the ones that do repeated standing jabs just outside of Honda’s jump range.
have you tried using your normals? like towards and roundhouse? sounds like that might beat s.jab pretty clean.
I’m not a honda player though. maybe using mp HHS to move forward?
doing nothing but keeping a charge is effective if you have life advantage.
Towards + roundhouse does beat standing jabs, but you have to get on range first, which is not an easy task against Balrog. HHS is what I do, but it’s risky cause you can eat a low rush.
And yeah I turtle like hell when I have life advantage against those Rogs, but the thing is how to get that life advantage first.
i might walk forward and then block. just to see what he does. figure out how he’s going to react to you being in certain ranges with no charge. then after you figure out what his reaction is, bait it and punish.
Bulldog up to standing roundhouse range, blocking dash punches on reaction or prediction, throwing out standing or crouching jab from time to time both to beat out dash punches and to hide the startup of an occasional strong hands. Don’t do the hands too close to Boxer because they can actually lose to his jabs, and don’t leave them out very long because you can get punished by low dash punch, use them mostly as a quick dash. But don’t do the slaps too much, they’re not as safe as just trying to walk up.
At some point before you actually get into standing roundhouse range it becomes impossible to block a dash punch on reaction, so start throwing out crouching jab more and more frequently because it really contains Boxer well (but obviously don’t get too predictable with it). If he tries to do a crouching attack to beat your crouching strong, that’s fine, it means you’ve broken his standing jab defense and can go into other stuff.
Oh, this is a nice bit of info, many thanks.
EDIT: and that new paragraph is even better. Great stuff, man.
kk, so I’m playing this honda player online. him honda, me blanka.
I bait a mistake and land j.short
now I crossup j.short repeatedly I mix it up with j.short s.strong.
the best honda players will block and then go for a reversal negative edge oochio
players who can’t negative edge oochio will probably fierce for the grab, since s.HP anti airs.
but this guy keeps doing MP HHS.
So does MP grab? I assume so, and if it does, why is he mashing so hard?
is that autofire or what? Cause I’ve never seen people do that before. Can I call him out? I can’t think of any reason to HHS after s.strong or j.short, since if i tick I win, and if I jump I win. the only thing that works is if I try to grab from too close, and he grabs with MP for reversal. Does autofire even guarantee reversal grab? Cause he reversal grabbed all my shit as boxer too.
Well first, off, why are you trying to tick Honda? Dude always wins when getting ticked unless it’s by a further-out Gief or Honda. Blanka has big throw range, but Honda’s normal throw and ochio ranges are both bigger, and he’s certain to get reversal ochio if he does it right.
Strong punch does throw and has big range, but there’s no reason to use it in particular when Honda’s fierce and roundhouse throws are so good. And no, autofiring strong punch doesn’t work for normal throwing, if I recall correctly you can only get an input for a normal throw once every so many frames. My guess as to what’s going in is that he’s trying to drum punches for a stored ochio, basically an option select, either he gets ochio if you’re throwable or slaps if you’re not. That’s reasonable in some situations, but not really when Blanka is up in your grill ready to jump over you for another crossup.
So, I don’t know why the Honda player keeps doing that.
like i said i just mix up between j.short and j.short s.strong.
i believe it was you who oochioed me out of the grab setup, and since then, I’ve never gone for a grab on honda.
I guess that makes sense. it’s too bad that MP HHS loses to xup short strong strong low fierce dizzy.