? you cancel super from hhs it doesn’t link? what? Giving U1 a couple less start frames won’t connect it after hhs or give it capabilities to cancel it all of a sudden
You can only cancel the first four hits of HHS into Super. And if you cancel into it off a far HHS, you should be doing the jab version (faster startup, same damage). I’m guessing we’ll still be able to anti-air HHS (juggle state) to Ultra 1/Super in the corner in Arcade Edition, as situational as that is.
There are definitely ways to balance it, but my point is that a lot of consideration is involved when changing frame data, especially on a move as big as an ultra.
Ask yourself what exactly are you trying to accomplish when you want a reduced startup on U1. Do you want to beat meaties with it? Use it as a whiff punish? In that case you’d have to get U1’s start up down to 7-9 frames, and that means HHS would definitely have to be nerfed.
If all you want is to use U1 as an AA, then it’s a hitbox change that you really want.
i’ll take that bet!
wait ? broken in a good way or a bad way? lol.
I’m slightly confused as to the lower body invincibility thing…do we still have to wait for startup before this takes place? In which case isn’t it pointless since we already basically had it by being off the ground?
Bah!
Trying to say this without saying it. Sorry , forum speak isn’t my strong suit:) But about that body invincible thing…
Actually you can link super after hp.HHS. It only works on crouching chun and Dict and is a very difficult link. I believe the reason U1 moves so slow was to prevent linking after HHS. But that wouldn’t be broken. There are lots of characters with way easier ultra set ups from normals or specials.
The lp.HB nerf effectively takes that move out of Honda’s tool set. LP.HB has 13 frames of start up with no invincibility. The upper body inv is what allowed it to work as AA and as a reversal. With lower body inv, just like Dread kicks you will only be able to beat some crouching kicks. You will still get throw because you are grounded. You will loose to c.lp’s and all other normals or specials.
I have no faith in U2 having usable range. In super it’s range is .91. Most likely it will have the range of the other useless grab ultras (Ibuki, Guy, Rog) which is 1.1. No where near the range of Gief, Hawk, Hakan which is 1.45. The push back of most moves will probably push you out of range. Even worse U2 has 71 frames of recovery if you whiff. Thats 30 frames worse than the other 720’s.
It would be the best ultra setup in the game bar none, primarily because HHS is safe on block, and costs no meter. It would be available to you at every round at a moments notice(as opposed to full super, or even FADC).
cr.jab xx fierce HHS, U1 would do 40+140+510*70% = 537 damage off a cr.jab. And Honda’s cr.jab is really good. It wouldn’t even have to be cr. jab either, any special-cancelable normal would do. You could combo ultra from a jump-in. You wouldn’t even need to charge beforehand because canceling into HHS gives you enough time to charge. Honda would be free to walk around like 3S Chun.
Again, there are ways to balance it, but the process is slightly more involved than “I never get to use U1, make the startup faster.”
as in, she gets a bunch of buffs she doesn’t need and becomes SS+ tier
I think we can combo ultra 1 with stand HP, JUMP BACK HP in the air.
Ultra 2 is 2 frames now? Can this still be ticked into? Can we do something that gives frame advantage and then ultra and make it so opponent cannot jump in reaction to the ultra? Ie cr. Lk into ultra 2. Usuallyu need a slight pause so that ur opponent is out of blockstu cuz ultra 2 is 1 frame. With the change now will we be able to make the ultra still act as a 1 frame move?
Nope. Jumps take 4 frames to become airborne (for everyone except gief(3) and sim(6) IIRC) and all 4 frames are throw invincible, so seeing as the 1 frame they can jump out of the ultra is after the ultra flash, they can just start holding up after the flash and get out of it for free.
Not sure if it’s been mentioned in this thread already, but I’m thinking U2 being 2 frames means that it can be used as an anti-safe jump option. As long as it has full startup invincibility, it should catch them in their landing frames, as opposed to U2 currently becoming active in their last airborne frame. I mean, this is just theory fighter at the moment, but unless they’re doing an OS, it should work, right?
super is easy to link off of hp. hands wtf is wrong with people and you dont have to be crouching to do it… does a video need to be up for this or something??? i mean damn that was the first combo i learned after hands
Pretty sure you’re thinking of cancelling HHS to super, while he’s talking about linking it (i.e. you don’t have charge early enough to cancel).
well, currently U2 has minimal invincibility…so maybe it can work, right now I’m seeing U2 as an anti-pressure tool, punishing rekkas/dash punches/jaguar kicks and mashing during block strings, yeeeeeeeee
no i know what he is talking about and its not hard… you want a hard combo try getting both s.mp to cr.mk to headbutt or hands to super thats a hard combo
as for u2 i agree that if the invinciblity is there then it could be used like a demon or something to punish jumpins hopefully we learn what can be done soon
“Leaked” changes:
"? Ultra 2 can be jumped after the blackout
? Jumping MP has been weakened via hitbox modification.
? Jab headbutt has lower body invincibility
? Headbutt does max damage on start up, so you?ll do minimum damage if you launch yourself from full screen. "
Dmg decreasing with distance is a good idea since it’s gonna make ppl, who full screen hb, stop (They should anyway since it’s so unsafe). But god i hate the jumping MP nerf.
There’s no way they nerfed jumping mp. It was sooo useful against 2 of Honda’s worst matchups, Guile and Dhalsim eat j.mp all day.
How is there no way ? Capcom are so good at fucking up characters.
Yeah I guess so. The entire point of making changes is to help bad matchups and hurt good matchups, but nerfing j. mp hurts bad matchups and does practically nothing to bad matchups imo.