This is 100% correct. For a honda example, s.lp is a 6 frame normal and is +6 so they can link together, but it’s rather difficult compared to s.lp, c.lp.
Hi i’d like to ask 2 things.
It says in the Wiki Frame Data that the super has Pursuit property.
Any one know what this means exactly or have a vid?
I hope it doesn’t mean it juggles.
Anyone ever use the target combo, any vids of it?
I’m pretty sure that is exactly what it means, that it juggles. Like after an antiair jab HB.
That it can be used as pursuit not that after it you can purue like in CvS2 let’s say.
Thanks.
Is it worth it doing the EX HHS or is just a waste of meter and should go for HP HHS? im asking because i usually do Cross Up J.MK, MP xx EX HHS then i end on perfect distance for 360, unless they jump backwards.
And also, Ochio i always do it with LP for startup frames advantage, should i do it with HP or EX Ochio better?
I rlly don’t undestand well the numbers on the frame data =/
all ohicho throws have the same frames number of start-up frames. the only difference between them is the distance. lp has the longest range and lowest damage. mp has medium range and medium damage. hp has shortest range and highest damage. EX has lp range and mp damage.
so this thread hasn’t been commented on for ages lol but i was wondering if anyone bothers to frame trap with honda?
Against Guile I use c.lp xx hp.HB instead of s.hk after hp.HHS. The headbut doesn’t combo but if gives you a no lose potential for additional damage. If the Guile is trying to time the end of HHS hoping you miss the s.hk link the c.lp causes him to waste his down charge. If he blocks you lose 2-8 damage versus s.hk. If he is holding jump to get away he eats the headbut for full damage. If he hits a button after the c.lp he eats a counter hit headbut for 200 damage. This is how the damage goes:
c.lp xx hp.HHS, s.hk = 260 damage
c.lp xx hp.HHS, c.lp > blocked hp.HB = 252 (212 damage + 40 chip)
c.lp xx hp.HHS, c.lp > hit hp.HB = 372 damage (if Guile jumps)
c.lp xx hp.HHS, c.lp > counterhit hp.HB = 412 damage (if Guile pushes a button)
If you do this on a jump in HHS combos the damage difference between s.hk and c.lp > chip.HB is 2 damage. This will work against Sim, Abel, and Blanka. It is too risky against dp characters like Cammy and crouching Shoto’s
thanks for the help. also i just realized that c.lk to c.lpxxhhs is a 2 frame frame trap, and that seems to be pretty commonly used. also, s.lp at any distance gives +3 so pretty much anything afterwards with a reasonable startup (probably his c.lp) will also be a frame trap.
I just tested this stuff and you are 90% right in your thinking:
Abel, Blanka and Cammy - the above works on them with HP headbutt, but as you say only if they try to jump or reversal with a normal (counter hit on the headbutt). If they just hold down back though the headbutt will be blocked and all of them have a punish on block.
Guile, Vega, Sim - all of them can jump out of it after the c.lp if you use HP headbutt as they are too far away. EX headbutt works though on these characters.
The way I see this being useful is to use EX headbutt on all of them so it is safe (only Cammy can punish on block if she has Super) and gauranteed to hit if they try and do any normal or jump. I personally would use this if I am close to ending a round - that meter is very important and I would use the HP headbutt version only on characters who cannot punish on block - Guile is the only one - as additional chip and pressure it could be good in that match.
Finally this stuff also works after jab hands on all crouching characters except Fei and Cammy, but again know who can punish your headbutts with what if they guess right and block.
@liluoke - those moves are best to hit confirm hands off (s.lp, c.lk, s.lk) and on block are the best way to create counter hit situations. Just watch against those pesky characters with invincible start up reversals. It pays to read frame data lol.
Exactly right with the c.short. It really makes a great mix up tool through conditioning. I use 3 basic options after it on block, jab hands, ochio, or another c.short bringing us back to square one. On hit you can link right into jab hands, or wait a split second more for hit stun and ochio, and start your knockdown games.
@Tam - Yeah I realized after I posted that block headbutts were unsafe against some of the people listed. That was probably why I only remembered doing it against Guile and not against anyone else. I’m just getting back in SF4 after not playing for 5 months. Against Abel HHS, c.lp xx ex.bs is way sexier anyways.
Any news on SSF4 frame data? Any change in Super/Ultra frame data? Finally, anyone could figure out why you can use HP headbutt/EX headbutt to go through any yoga fire? Thanks in advance!
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/nov/13/e-honda-frame-data-street-fighter-4/
Here is the link to Honda’s new frame data. They also have the old data if you want to compare the two.
thank you haitian your one of the better honda players even if you dont believe it yourself!
i knew there was something special about mk buttslam its always trading with tiger knee and other good moves
Thanks jewelman. Is mk buttslam really that good? I’ve taken buttslam completely out of my gameplay.
the frame data shows it as having an extra frame of invincibility and it trading with really good specials if you dont have ex buttslam doesnt lie
Ummm where is Hondas Hitbox data? Where is it?
Thankyou. I’ve been for something like this.