sorry Sabre, you’re not exactly correct. Ken’s c.fwd is hit-confirm possible as a LATE-CANCEL. For the record, I after cr.forward, I roll the 2 fb motions and drum kkk if it hits.
the property that Sabre talks about does exist, but that’s not really hit confirm.
paulee: yeah its not really hit confirm about what i was talking about. but its a viable method of course. as for the late cancel. it doesnt feel like it can. maybe i miss observed it. just never feels like you can. =)
Just to add onto what Sabre was saying, what I like to do with Ken is sit outside of the opponents poke range, look for them to stick something out, and then c.MK super them. You like ‘hit them in the recovery’ of the move. Not sure if that’s what Sabre meant.
Easiest to do on slow characters like Hugo and Q.
That may also be common knowledge it’s just footsies or whatever. What do I know I’m a scrub.
I can’t hit confirm Ken’s c.MK. Sometimes I ‘feel’ like I did, but I’m not sure. I like to hit confirm his c.MP though Daigo style all the time. Easy and extremely effective.
With Ken, you don’t have to be able to hit confirm 100%, but if you can’t do it some percentage of the time, you probably should avoid Ken. How many times have you seen bad Ken players lose because they throw out c.fwd xx SAIII and eat damage because it got blocked? Now imagine if they couldn’t hit it at all but they threw it out all the time. You can see the obvious problem.
As far as huge windows for cancels, it feels like you have eternity to cancel into SAII after an Elena c.strong, especially if the opponent is crouching. Q’s dash punch into SA1 is a pretty easy confirm, but I’m not sure if that’s just because it’s easy to see or because it’s got an enormous window. Hugo clap into SAIII is pretty easy. I can’t think of any others that are really easy off the top of my head.
makoto’s standing strong into sa1 is the easiest of them all.
Remy close stand MK into SA2. You have so much time that I make it like Chun Li’s c.MK.
chun li’s close rh has a long ass time
The 3s gamest mook gives the cancel window for certain normals, if anyone wants to share. ken’s cr. forward (mk) is probably about 10 frames cause anything under 10 frames is pretty much impossible to actually react to.
Paul is correct, you CAN late cancel it. the window is just really small, but it is noticable. you can either do the super immediatley after the low forward or slightly after it, you'll see the low forward hit, stay there and then the super happen.
I’ve seen Ricky/Choi do low forward meaty when they wake up and it confirm it to dpxxxsuper and the low forward cancels VERY late.
I hit confirm low forward the same way paul lee does and belive me guys, for the people who say it’s impossible, it’s not that bad. Every low forward you stick out you HAVE to except it to hit, so pay attention to ALL the low forwards that you throw out, then you will pay attention to the hit, you can’t play lazy in 3s guys.
Also, a small tip, if you guys throw out low forward, make SURE that it’s hit/blocked (except for ken with can super reversal it) and NOT whiffed because tons of people can counter poke the reel animation into their own super. Only some characters you can get away with doing that whiff l.forwardxxxsuper trick Sabre is talking about.
13 frames according to the mook.
So I assume all shoto d.MKs are the same in terms of… uhh… delayed cancellability?
c.mp confirm should be under 10 frames and thats really pushing the limit. I seen daigo confirm a baby kick super from a blocked short short. The opp blocked the first hit but not the 2nd one and daigo confirmed off of it. pwnded.
if you practice cr.mp super for a while, c.mk super will be the easiet thing ever since you have way more time to cancel from the c.mk Thats how I learned it and id say I land it about 70% of the time.
as for like delayed shit. I know ken can do it becauce when you hit confirm sometimes it will link and not cancel. It will look helllllla late. Not sure about ryu and akuma stuff. There should be like a 3s frame list on the net somewhere. I guess if ryu and akumas c.mk is the same amout of frames as kens, it could work like that. I know seans c.RH is hella slower than the OG shotos. Maybe they changed some frame #'s for akuma and ryu.
Kenzilla: c.mp confirm is a link not a cancel, so its completely different
BillyKane: ! they actually have cancel windows in there? i’d love to see a list or a sample (if you can be bothered…) which normal has the largest? or what are the top 3?
thanks!
Actually they aren’t. The mook says Ryu’s and Akuma’s are only 12 frames. 
eks: Top 3 normals listed in the mook in terms of late cancel window are:
Chun cr. mk - 18 frames
Necro back mp/mk - 17 frames
Elena cr. mp/Alex st. mk/Chun back hp - 16 frames
I’ll post the rest of the list when I have more free time in a couple of weeks, unless someone does it before. It only lists a couple of moves per char at most but I’m pretty busy at the moment.
thanks very much sir!
It’s obvious that I’m fairly new to 3s, so I ask, what or who is the mook?
Also, is it possible to figure out the cancel frames using frame data? For example, Ryu’s c.mk compared to Ken’s is 1 frame slower and has 1 less recovery frame. They both have the same active frames and block/hit/crouching advantage/disadvantage frames. Ryu’s active frames subtracted from his recovery frames is 12 and Ken’s is 13. Maybe it’s just coincidence. Akuma’s c.mk is similar to Ryu’s but is 1 frame faster and the active frames subtracted from the recovery frames is still 12.
edit: Nevermind. Chun’s c.mk would be 13 but it’s obviously not.
I could of sworn that c.mp can be cancelled. When you do it without hit confirm kens arm stays in the character then the super comes out. If it were a link wouldnt the arm retract then the super would start up? like kens b+mk sa3 link
You can link or cancel c.mp. If you cancel it, they won’t move back, but if you link it you can see them pushed backward by the c.mp, then the shippu sucks them back in. The c.mp -> shippu is the easiest hit confirm I know of; it’s late enough that you don’t even have to buffer the motion, just super if you see the c.mp hit.
The st. strong, shippu link is easier IMO. It feels like you have a year to input the super after it hits.
If those numbers are correct, then you ought to be able to use this tool to get a feel for things to try hit confirming.
If you can consistently score underneath .216, you’re reacting fast enough to hit confirm ken’s crouching mk (I, myself, average about .225 :sad:).
For contrast, chun li’s crouching mk would equate with a max time of .300, and Elena’s c.mp with .266.