I disagree. Over two thirds of the cast have good hitconfirms off of a standing mp or crouching mp which is +2 or +3 on block, and generally do decent damage. The exceptions are Mika (stand mp is -1 on block, she has a different hitconfirm which is positive but does less damage), Laura (just has shitty hit confirms) and possibly Gief/Vega/Dhalsim (dunno how their combos work).
Yes, obviously these combos do less than punish combos, but so did hit confirms in SFIV, and they still do way more than most jab > jab ( > jab) > special combos in SFIV (which not all characters even have).
It would be fun to see SFV bring back more of the one hit confirms from SF3. I feel that’s something really fun that was lost in SFIV with everyone just being forced to learn to link things that don’t really require a lot of hit confirming, just wiring their sticks to make 1 frame links feel like 2 frame links. 3S style hit confirms you just had to have the right amount of practice and awareness for. I liked that execution because it was an execution that you could only truly build through competitive play. No one is going to be able to training mode one hit confirms and get them down as well as someone who is practicing them in real situations regularly. Whereas SFIV 1 frame link stuff can generally just be put together in training mode and then padded with plink selects.
If this does become a regular thing for SFV then that will just be part of what makes SFV more execution based than people think. There’s always something people find to make a game tougher when it comes to a fighter. Not even Marvel 3 could get away from having difficult execution even though it tried every trick in the book to make combos easier. I don’t think SFV will suddenly be that game where no one ever drops anything all of a sudden now. SFV just brings it back more old school where your basic bnbs and damage in footsies can be attained without being a training mode monster. Which is fine.
If the game works out where there are more juggle based combos and less link from the ground stuff that would be nice just from an options and visual standpoint. That’s what I liked about 3S and apparently A3 was like that as well. Both games that had very few grounded links, but there were a lot of options for juggles and unique combo situations that weren’t purely link based.
Mechanically? Yeah it isn’t hard at all. But I’m not speaking on the mechanics of inputs. I’m speaking on the ability to react quickly enough to hitconfirm it.
JW said it took him 2 weeks of practice to do it. 2 weeks…
After years of practicing it off and on I’ve never been able to reliably do that link on reaction.
If you find it easy… Good for you. I find other executional things YOU don’t, to be easy… I’m not going on about it though am I? Execution is an artificial barrier. Fine it’s got to be in in some form but an execution that is so hard that one of the best players in the world has to practice it for 2 weeks to get it… Probably shouldn’t be a design point on a game. We got rid of 1 framers… Which I could consistently do without plinking with decent practice… You don’t see me going on about the benefits of 1 frame links do you?
You’re forgetting the second part of that statement - the fact that single hit confirms, even into super are easier in V.
Also, you said it yourself, it’s about reaction not execution. These are different things, especially since reaction plays more into the mental game because you can pair it with prediction/yomi to get better results.
Chun’s cr. mk xx super is one of the easiest single-hit confirms in a street fighter game. Her cr. mk is broken in 3S because you can cancel out of it late into the move’s recovery frames. If you are being honest that you can’t do it consistently then I’d assume you havnt practiced confirming very much at all.
Comparing that confirm to one-frame links is ridiculous. I bet that intermediate/high-level players drop one-frame links way more often than they miss confirms like Ken and Chun-Li’s xx super. The real kicker is that a lot of the hit confirms in SFV are even easier than the easiest 3S confirms. So I’m sure most beginners to intermediate players could do them “with decent practice” just as well as you can consistently land one-framers.
No I didn’t miss that. What actually happened is I don’t have any proof that what you say is in fact correct. I can’t do cr.mk xx hosenka on reaction so I have no concept to compare what you say to.
But I guess you could tell me what these easier confirms are… So that we at least know where you are coming from.
As an example I CAN do certain wait forever 1 hit hit confirms… But they are so slow that they can hardly be called a confirm:
In sf4 with ryu I can cr.mp, see it hit or get blocked and confirm into srk on reaction. It’s super slow though. If I were to do chuns confirm with the same speed I would easily get my shit blocked after the cr.mk hit.
So what confirms are you talking about? The st.mp “confirms” in this game? Those are hardly confirms they are links. Chuns cr.mk xx super is NOT a link, unlike what some of you say. It’s actually a (slightly) late cancel. Sure you can late cancel it very late… But it will be blocked if you do.
Well nobody can do cr.mk x hosenka because you can’t cancel normal’s into Ultras in SFIV. Cr.mk into hoyoukusen on the other hand…
And yes, we already mentioned that not only is cr.mk xx SA2 a late confirm in 3S, but most confirms/cancels in V are even more lenient than that one thanks to a combination of factors (late cancel, 2 frame buffer, generous hitstop). Most simply confirms such as cr.mk into any special for most characters with special cancelable cr.mks fall under this. Same with supers.
If you’re having trouble hitting them, then it’s a reaction problem, not an execution one. At the same time, that can be addressed just by learning how to read and use them to punish stuff you’ve baited out. A good part of being able to use single hit confirms is about baiting and
punishing. It’s part of old school, “you cr.mk and I’ll try to cr.mk your cr.mk” footsies. It’s not just about poking with cr.mk and hoping for a hit that you can convert into a combo.
@“DevilJin 01” mentioned something
You built this “execution” through competitive play because it’s something you learn to do by learning to read and react to your opponents, not sheer muscle memory.
In any case, the original topic was about jab hit confirms, if your issue is single hit confirms, there are still characters who can lead off combos starting with two normal hits from medium and heavy normals (e.g. Cammy st.mp, st.hp and f.hk, cr.mp, or Karin’s st.mp, cr.mp).
If you can’t hit confirm don’t worry about it. I’ve never been able to hit confirm off of 1 hit and I don’t stress about it. I can still hold my own for the most part.
I don’t agree that Chun low forward is ridiculously easy. It’s just doable. Under pressure against strong opponents it won’t feel so easy lol. I’ve seen very strong players miss it all the time in those conditions.
Ken low forward is not confirmable at all.
I find Ken low strong and stand strong, Mak stand strong, and Mak stand fierce -> hold hayate all easier than Chun low forward.
The exact amount of time you have to react to chun-li’s low forward in third strike, ignoring any input delay, is 17 frames after hitting the button. If you’re not reacting to a state that the opponent was in during this time, but the actual hit, then it’s 11 frames by subtracting the 6 frames of start-up.
If someone can gather information about the reaction times required in SFV, it would be interesting to compare them.
You’re completely wrong.
It’s around 18 frames to confirm, that is only reacting to the actual hit, not startup since that’s completely irrelevant to any discussion of hit confirming.
Anyone who plays 3S can tell you it’s not a difficult confirm once you understand the timing of the cancel and 3S players are not demi-gods able to react to something in 11 frames.
As bob said, in action, when you’re under pressure, something which you can do 100% of the time on a dummy or AI becomes a lot more difficult and people miss even something that has a big enough window like chun’s low forward.
Alright, I went back and checked my macro and found out that it waits a frame for some types of inputs. So, they weren’t included in my initial calculations. It’s 17 frames after the hit. I thought 11 was too short but couldn’t find any reason to debunk it until now.
I think theoretically you’d get extra time if you hit them crouching in 3S also. Being hit crouching is essentially the equivalent of counter hit state in that game.