Except in older games… Namely ones besides 3s… You actually get plenty of jabs and weak attacks to confirm with.
Why all the misinformation coming from you 3s players?
In basically every streetfighter not named sf3 you can use hitconfirms of the jab jab variety.
Either being jab> jab> medium>cancel
Or
Jab>jab>jab>cancel
Hell, A2 sakura gets 4 lights into srk.
And certain versions of sf2 gief get jabx4 or 5 into sweep.
In A3 shotos all get crouching short jab short into super/special
Really not seeing this “in oldschool it worked this way” thing. In A1 you have chains for chrissake and in marvel you do to.
3s/streetfighter 3 is the only game that REALLY forces you to rely on various 1 hit confirms and the primary reason I don’t play that game and a primary reason why ALOT of players don’t play that game.
SF2 removed the special cancel property off chained lights. Anything done that way had to be a link, which was much harder. Most of the time, these longer combos off lights were either rarely seen in a match, at least not as much as you see them in IV.
Doing combos from lights in A2 wasn’t as good, not when the best characters in the game could just stop you from doing anything by sitting a mid range and spamming low forward/strong.
A3 is probably the least “Street Fighter-like” SF game after IV.
no character is forced to rely on 1 hit confirms that are actually difficult except Chun. I really doubt “confirming from one attack is hard” is the main reason X person doesn’t play the game. most people don’t play it because it’s old or they don’t like parry.
I’d be curious to see what you perceive as the confirms you’re forced to rely on for most characters. most single hit confirms that are used in competitive play are links and you really have a long time to confirm.
Deejay bnb in ST is crouching jab link into st.mp. Very easy link and cancelable into dreadkicks or max out which are both safe on block, or into upkicks or MGU on confirm for a dizzy in general, which are also both relatively easy combos. But I mean you can just dreadkick on hit or tick throw on block… Very easy since deejay gets a million jabs to confirm.
Chun bnb in ST is cr.mk link into basically her choice of medium or hard attack (sweep or st.hp were the usual choices)
-edit… Lol sorry was wrong the Chun link was close st.mp… LOL… Just remembered. Anyways the point is that links aren’t necessarily hard in ST. There are many very easy ones that are very good.
Blanka hitconfirm on ST is close st.mp link into basically any medium or heavy.
Gief has lights into sweep. Can’t remember if that’s ST or only hyper fighting.
Characters that have no confirm and also have no safe on block special attack are generally considered kinda bad (cammy) or have super long range pokes that are safe on block and so don’t need confirms (vega, sim, rog shotos etc)
And A3 isn’t the least streetfighter game. That award easily goes to 3s for various obvious reasons. A3 would be next runner up, but far back by a decently large margin.
Uhh in sf2 you can renda cancel and cps chains depending on game, and you can also special cancel if you transition from stand to crouch or crouch to stand for the last chained into move.
like in st guile can do cr.jab x2 st.jab xx flashkick
they are definitely harder than sf4 combos, but it’s also hard to be in someones face long enough in sf2 and like not kill them with how strong throws and the like are, and it’s much harder to get there in the first place.
Uoh super for many characters (while also having to confirm high and low block and be meaty in certain situations)
Overhead super for dudley
Cr.mp and cr.mk super for ken
St.mp super for necro (can be buffer canceled as well, but the top players actually confirm it) and is needed for a high level necro
Whatever elenas medium is into super… I’ve heard it’s hard as hell.
Chun cr.mk xx super
I’ve heard people say akuma has cr.mk xx super
Q st.mk xx super and dash punch xx super
Etc etc. the game is basically riddled with them. Not EVERY character has to rely on them but most have them in there in some form that is needed.
After that you get into 2 hit confirms which are still quite hard and not super fun to go about learning. All the hours I practiced short short super reaction confirm against a crouching random blocking dummy to no avail and then just gave up on the game because I had better things to do with my time.
This is pretty much the reason I wanna start playing 3rd strike before SFV comes out. lock my door boot up 3S:OE get in training mode, put the dummy on random, and practice cr.mk sa1 with Gouki for hours.
Most of these are links, and those links are significantly easier to confirm than, say, confirming a c.MP to c.HK with SF4-Ryu imo.
The exceptions here are late cancels (Chun c.MK, Elena c.MP, cl.MK for half the cast), and they are very doable as well, though certainly not easy. Then there’s shoto c.MK xx Super, which some people claim is confirmable but I’m honestly not sure I believe them. Ken c.MK xx SA3 is really useful, but you generally use it as a whiff punish or as a buffered OS, not as a confirm.
Also, I personally prefer practicing single hit confirms to practicing overly long combos or stupidly tight links/OSes, but that’s personal preference.
You can cancel chained lights in SF2. They have to be different heights for it to work. So something like c.lk, s.lk xx special.
Dime_x is right in saying there’s a lot of light confirms in older games. Yun magic series, duds/yang/shotos shortx2, shotos c.lp, s.mp in a2, c.shortx2 in cvs2 etc.
I never thought confirming of lights was a problem or dominant choice in SF4 as well.
It’s just shit you press when you’re close up that does not net you the biggest damage but has the best chance to beat everything but uppercuts and are good for pressuring people on wake-up.
I feel like most complaints revolving about “Jab Fighter” come from people who don’t even play 4 and just parrot what other people who don’t play it say about it.
Don’t see Daigo’s big damage combos coming off lights, dude gets the big hit-confirms off low forward, crouching strong or fierce with some meter involved just like everyone else except for some red focus stuff.
I feel lights in SFV are alright though. You get some hit-confirms into specials and super and that’s basically it. Don’t like that they’re not true blockstrings though.
Thanks. I only agree with some of these but I’ll spare everyone from reading my list. I’ll just say that of the actually strong characters (the top 10, which is my personal cutoff for viable, though others may disagree), Yun Mak Yang Urien Oro and Denjin Ryu don’t need to confirm off single hits to win or be played at a high level. To me if 6/10 of the good characters don’t require single hits to confirm then it’s not really accurate to say 3s forces you to be good at single hit confirms. But certainly if you play Chun or Ken your confirms and reactions need to be on point.
I’m surprised you found short x2 -> super to be difficult. was it a “time you have to confirm” problem or just an execution problem? For me personally, the hurdle was execution, not how long I had to do it. Once I got past the execution hurdle I felt short x2 was reasonably easy.
The execution is ridiculously easy for me, which was a part of the frustration. My problem was the time I had to confirm. I just couldn’t do it. Whereas something like cr.lk,cr.lp,cr.lk xx super in alpha 3 took literally no practice for me to do on reaction. I did it the first time I tried it after seeing Valle doing it at golfland and going back home and trying it on console alpha 2.
For me, 3 hits is the confirm, I can do it while dead drunk. 2 is depending on time of day and condition of my nervous system. I generally need to have just woken up, had a very chill previous restful day, and had a good amount of food and drink. And that’s only to be able to do them sometimes.
The only 1 hit hit confirms I’ve ever been able to do are things like tekken juggle links off of launchers (and even those came only with practice) it might be a mental block or something, idk. But it’s frustrating whatever it is. And I dont see why it’s needed as a design point in any fighting game.
For me it’s like making a move into a half circle that could easily have a been a quarter circle. Just an execution barrier.
I find it a lot easier in 3s than for example alpha 2. In 3s you can mash the lights almost as quickly as you want, which leaves you with a lot more time to perform the motions. It feels similar to a dial-a-combo. In alpha 2, you have to slow it down a bit so you’ll have to input the motions quicker, and I’m garbage at it.
I find it pretty strange that you (and plenty of others) are so focused on the NUMBER of moves in a hitconfirm. All that matters is the time you have to react.
As an example, Dudley’s F+HK overhead link into super is pretty generous if you play the character and put in a small amount of practice. Whereas Ken’s cr. MK is not a hitconfirm for all intents and purposes. Then you have something like Q’s standing MKxx super which is pretty difficult but possible if you spend a lot of time on it.
Also, most UOH into super links rely on specific spacing dependent setups which make them easier. They aren’t really an enormous part of the game. For example, with Dudley you might do two cr. jabs- if they are blocked that leaves you at the perfect spacing for UOH into super.
I use the number of attacks as a general placeholder. Of course it’s easier to confirm one hit attacks that have huge hitstun into an easy link like marvel style launchers and skullgirls big band sound stun that gives certain moves of his around 3-4 times the hitstun if his normal moves… But I mean no one is talking about exceptions to the rules. We are talking about generic (confirm able) 1 hit hit confirms, so things like chuns cr.mk xx hosenka. I’m not talking about super freaking hard to impossible 1 hit hit “confirms” like ST ryu cr.lk xx super confirm which would probably be on the level of most impossible type of confirm out there.
It takes to long to say “long hitstun plus a link” than to just say 1 hit hit confirms. Besides, what is “long” hitstun and an easy link to one person, may not be to another.
Saying 1 hit is a better way to describe things as its what is “generally” happening when I complain about 1 hit hit confirms.
I don’t mind them being in a game, what I mind is when a game is built with them in mind as a design mechanic. Chun is literally unplayable if you can’t cr.mk xx super confirm. And rather than being simple execution which is practicable, it is reactionary… Which really isn’t. You only have what you have.
If Capcom truly tries to bring in new blood with SFV, then having any character, or gameplay mechanic in general that requires to be able to hitconfirm a normal into a super or special reliably, is completey the wrong way to do it. Talking about cancels. Linking on reaction from a normal is another story.
Anyway, to me that seems an incredibly wierd design aspect IF it will end up playing a big part in SFV. Capcom goes out of their way to remove bulshit such as 1 frame links, crouchteching and option selects(not all), all the stuff that makes picking up USFIV as a beginner unnecessarily difficult. Capcom removed this artificial depth, with good reason.
But on the other hand Capcom would want beginners to learn something that would require INTENSE practice for a beginner, something that does nothing to enhance the gameplay? Again with the artifical depth.
I know the discussion wasn’t about if stuff like that should be in the game or not, but more about how doable it was. However i would most definately not like to see anything of the sort in SFV to be able to play the game and a character competently.
Making the game more beginner friendly isn’t the only guideline for this game’s design. A good part of it is also taking out what many older players didn’t like about SFIV and the heavy reliance on lights for exteded combos was one of the other things. With this, it seems that they did look heavily towards 3rd Strike as inspiration on how to do this.
That said, the cancel windows in this game are more lenient and the 2 frame buffer also helps make cancels easier. And even then, you can still get short combos out of chained lights. They’re just not the go-to BnBs for the most part.