High risk high reward ...Is it worth the risk with ol' shellhead?

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
61

Definitely learn it, once you get it down it’s super easy and easily the most practical inf in the game thus far. After knocking them down with the S close to the ground in the corner do a jump back smart bombs fall with H as low as you can and then do fly mhs, rejump mmh, into the rest of the inf. Midscreen do an airdash as low as you can, smart bombs as close to them as you can without it going over, and then land with falling H, fly MS, jump mmh.

Hope this helped but if you have any more questions I feel really comfortable with this inf so ask away.

62

i dont know i really feel players like myself joker and danke are going to really put him on the map … he just takes alot of work … even to this day i get put in a new hit conversion situation where i say to myself … wow i gotta remember that for this match up … so i mean let people say what they are going to say … just play what u wanna play bro … i keep switching my teams around to really get something really beneficial for iron man … so i think coldstar/missles might be the best thing aside from drones … but i really dont have fun playing sentinel so i stopped bothering

DANKE do u have aim or sumthing … dont really feel like refreshing this page or w.e LOL

63

okay that’s the reply i was waiting for lol i really love playing ironman and team combofiend (team joker or whatever people call it nowadays). regardless of what most other people say, i think he’s a really solid character with decent normals and great with drones but what character isn’t eh?

plus i’m trying to find more people that play ironman so i can discuss stuff like new hit confirms etc so if any of yall have skype or aim let me know ><

64

I think the new Ironman TAC infinite is really practical as well. It looks hard at first but for me, after about an hour of practice I was able to get all 3 corner variants pretty consistently and really only drop it when I lose focus/get bored. The midscreen starters I still need to work on though but I’m not too worried since my team is designed to corner carry in most situations.

65

Iron Man is bad, but far from being non-viable. That post over-exaggerates his weaknesses. His air mobility is fine, its his terrible ground dash that really, REALLY holds him back. His air normals are good, but because they are not sword normals, they really AREN’T good if that makes sense. Its easy to stuff people that aren’t Dante or Vergil with them. Sword normals in this game are just fucking stupid. I think air to air combos with Iron Man really good against certain characters though, I mean I manage to tag Morrigan, Dormmamu, and Magneto with j.uH into Duck Strong air to air combo for good damage. His air to air staircase combos really are good. I wouldn’t dream against trying that shit against Vergil or Dante though unless I wanted to die. So yeah Iron Man is super matchup dependent.

I completely agree on his weak incoming character mixup. sj ADD j.L is ass because you don’t have enough hitstun to convert off it. Danke told me at EVO that Iron Man really doesn’t have incoming character mixups without assists, and after constantly getting blown up by my friends Vergil trying to tick him with j.L on incoming I agree. If ANYONE has any real incoming character mixups with this guy without assists, I’d love to hear them.

Iron Man is the worst eight way air dash/flight character in the game but I still think he’s viable. I put him at low mid tier at around/below where Sentinel and Ryu are. I’m not deluded enough to think he’s any higher than that. People that say “Iron Man is being slept on!” don’t plan Iron Man and realize all the problems and bullshit this character has to put up with. Like with any low tier character in a fighting game, if you play Tony you’re going to need to learn matchups and constantly play one step ahead of your opponent because of your limited toolset.

Iron Man is also weird in that in one on one situations, he can flat out beat a lot of characters. If its ever just Iron Man vs Doom or Dormmamu where neither player has X-Factor or assists, I feel like he wins these fights. Doom really can’t touch Iron Man because he has a better beam and Repulsor Blast knocks him on his ass when he tries his food dive nonsense. Against Dormammu, air H Smart Bombs beat the startup of almost everything he tries to do, and when he teleports, you jump and do j.uH which either leads to your air to air combo on hit confirm or an air throw, either way you get damage.

That’s Iron Man’s biggest problem though, he’s in the wrong game. He feels like he belongs in Marvel Super Heroes or MvC1 or something. In theory he has good tools, but in practically he really doesn’t because he lacks good conversion tools to get damage which is the most important thing in Marvel, and has ABSOLUTELY NO “cheap shit” which is also really important in this game. I mean Capcom made all these deliberate decisions to make him as mediocre as he is. Repulsor Blast knockdown + bad ground dash means you can only convert off it into a combo near or in the corner, without spending meter for Proton Cannon or Iron Avenger. Meanwhile Doom hits you with a Foot Dive or Dante with a Helm Splitter, and they have enough time to get a Coke out of the fridge before actually starting a combo. In a game full of derp, Iron Man has none.

Luckily the IM community is pretty great in sharing tech for this character. Danke’s got new shit for us every week it seems. And even though Tony is pretty bad, he is really fun to play.

Last but not least it bugs me that they would mention Alukard and Joker in the same sentence because Alukard has real hit confirms and Joker fucking doesn’t. Alukard plays Joker’s team better than he could ever dream too.

One final thing to add even though I’ve edited this post like 3 times now…Iron Man is really a better character in this game than in vanilla. I barely touched vanilla and have only been playing Ultimate since a month or two since after it came out, but he seriously couldn’t even do the KK combo in that game, air dash cancel normals, and Repulsor Spread didn’t even knock down! I can’t imagine playing that version of that character in this game…you would really get shit all over, and his good air to air and TAC combos would be non-existent.

66

As far as tiers go, I like to think the new TAC inf would be enough to move him up a few spaces. The ability to turn literally ANY hit confirm from any character, anywhere on the screen, into a 66% chance for a meterless TOD is huge. Couple that with the trending resets made popular by FChamp’s Mags (combo -> relaunch -> j.l to bait a TAC counter attempt into air to air conversion), and the opponent has a 16.5% chance to GUESS RIGHT (between TAC/No TAC and then the 3 options innate to every TAC) and not get murdered for a net gain of 3 to 4 bars on your end. The latter point is only going to be applicable to point characters capable of executing the reset, which is exciting in itself because I feel there are a lot of underused characters capable of that which aren’t getting much play at high level. Even without that, though, the implications are fucking bonkers.

It smacks of guard breaks ala MvC2, which would be nauseating if it didn’t just apply to Iron Man (totally subjective on that, fuck it). I feel that if the options are explored enough, it’s going to turn Tony into a 2nd slot Pheonix-ish character, making everyone snap him in or deal with a dice roll heavily stacked in your favor.

It’s a bit sad to think that IM might be relegated to Bigger Beatstick, but if it gets more people working with him, I’m game.

67

Hey man, you are one of the few people playing IM. You and others, like Danke, give the rest of us hope. I know he sucks and is hard to play and many players could rack up more wins if they picked someone better… but IM community needs people like you. Thanks for sticking it out with him. It gives me hope.

68

I was kind of thinking that with the new TAC infinite discovery Iron Man might start finding his way onto Phoenix teams again.

Rushdown character/Iron Man/Phoenix could have a lot of potential.

69

Iron Man still won’t find his way onto anything but character loyalist teams for a long time. Until people find things that he has in the neutral on point or on support that they really need to have they’re not gonna bother. Which I think he does have but people won’t bother learning when Mag and Doom are out there.

70

I keep telling you these things already exist and the good players on this board have found them, and it still does not change his position as a low tier/support centric character. Why do you not believe me? I’m genuinely curious because Duck Strong and Danke have contributed a lot of stuff TO his neutral game like great TAC combos and completely consistent air to air combos from any height stemming off any version of his j.H normals, which is one of the things you yourself said was important to have and we now DO have, like 3 different versions even.

I mean I agree he’s never going to be a popular character but you seem to think that people haven’t actually found out how to play the character and get the most mileage out of his tools. That’s really not the case, and if you read the threads here you would realize that.

This character has major limitations like having literally no way to break 850k in the corner by himself for one bar, pretty shitty incoming mixups, the worst ground dash in the entire game, and a reset game that is sub par. People know how to play Iron Man and this point, its just a matter of learning to play his mediocre ass well enough to get results.

I really think you are waiting for some magical discovery with Iron Man that’s going to make him shoot up the tier lists and have people start flocking to him that quite frankly doesn’t exist. If you play this character, you play him for his assist or you genuinely like him. That’s it. Even the infinites are independent of Iron Man because you aren’t landing the actual HIT into the infinite from Iron Man due to the nature of TACs, you’re doing it with another character.

tl:dr I agree with you that Iron Man will only ever be on assist or character loyalty teams, I disagree that people don’t know how to play the character’s neutral game yet.

71

I didn’t say they didn’t exist. I just said no one will care that they exist. Which is true. People are going to need to see reason to use Iron Man’s stuff over the other stuff that’s out there and…his TAC infinites alone are not gonna do it. Which none of the other stuff really will either.

It will most likely take a combination of exploring everything he can do and the only people that are gonna do that are Iron Man loyalists. The other characters are going to seem like safer alternatives especially when they have safe DHC’s and Iron Man does not.

There’s a lot of potential there but the guys looking for a quick buff to their Phoenix team are just gonna see unsafe DHC and slower aerial movement and just dip out.

Nobody that plays him regularly in tournaments from what I’ve seen have close to maximizing him at all is the only other thing I’m saying. Not saying anybody that’s on the internet isn’t doing it.

72

I mean you have three Iron Man players that people actually know from tournament play: Alukard, Danke, Joker, and I mean all three of these players have basically figured out what the character is good at and what he isn’t good at, and how to maximize damage off the characters good tools and not get murdered from the bad ones.

I just think that you think Iron Man is some enigma that’s yet to be solved by the community at large and he really isn’t, people have figured out what he’s good at and what he isn’t at this point, the best ways to hit confirms/do damage/the best TACs, etc. Iron Man is less unexplored than he is limited is all I’m saying.

This character will never be popular for the same reasons Iron Fist and Ghost Rider will never be popular. Not that he’s THAT bad, but he’s just outclassed most of the time.

No amount of “unexplored tech” is going to change the fact that he can’t cancel his dash for 11 fucking frames.

73

If Chrisis still believes Viper is vastly unexplored than I would say Iron Man is pretty up there too. I haven’t watched any of their stuff in the last couple months but at least from what I saw…it could definitely be improved upon.

That’s still besides the main point that nobody is going to pick up Iron Man cuz of this. That was like 90 percent of my original post any way. By the word “people” I meant people outside of the Iron Man character loyalists and those people aren’t going to care to learn what Danke, Alukard and Joker know with him.

People only really flock to what is immediately powerful like “oh hey I didn’t know Vergil’s XF3 was better than Wesker’s and that it’s extremely easy to cover his on block issues” and other stuff that generally takes the US way too long to figure out. If it takes us a long time to adopt powerful and very practical stuff…it would just take entirely too long to convince other people to pick up Iron Man.

74

I mean I agree with you man its just in a really weird roundabout way.

I need to take a break from posting though. I’ve written a novels worth of shit on these forums today alone.

75

I tried guys but i only got the infinite off stream >_< … Vergil owns my soul!

76

You can’t even blame yourself man, Vergil-IM is one of the worst matchups in the game.

77

I know but i just cant believe that he just … Does it and it pays off heavily :confused:

78

i mean i honestly dont care who is said to be the best … i just wanna play as good as i do off stream … i dont know if its the tv or the overthinking … i’m not really nervous since i’ve been a top player in like 3 other games lol … man fuck vergil! LOOL

79

You called?

I think you should change your team to my understanding of the game I think every point character should be able to one touch kill at least characters with 900K without meter (Zero, Spencer, Mag, Vergil, Chris, Hulk, Nemesis, Iron fist etc

Wesker can’t save him for derp Xf3

I picked up Vergil because of Spencer, Taskmaster is no longer a great point character, second or third maybe.

80

i respect that … i play magnus but he’s not entirely ready 90% there tho … its really sentinel … i dont know many match ups with him … so its a bit frustrating but i like usin ammy over sent