Hey refs and TOs, which looks more honest?

Tech Talk
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When someone comes in with a custom stick, like i might my ambi, which would look less suspicious ( in a retro tournament)?

One guy on atari age says any non-off-the-shelf stick will look suspicious. He suggested I should use a raspberry pi for an input swapper, a computerized button switching system.

I said i wouldn’t use it because i know the more unfamiliar computer chips and programs involved, the more thouroughly they’ll investigate. If all are standard joystick parts, with 3.5 mm male to male cables used to reroute button psrts, assuning there are no Y cables, ( or all y’s are confirned dead ends, like my ambi design) and the only thing resembling a computer AI brain is some standard part like a Cthulhu, or Brook Universal USB., they just test it against a known standardd version. And the refs and TOs psss that, and the rest is easy.

By the way, i know how to cheat on an Interact Alloy DC stick, and Interact PS2 shadowblade. That’s how i thought of the idea of a vertically symmetric ambi design, and saw the smiling buttons problem.

The reason why this is important is I’m planning to broadcast on Twitch a stream show called “Jukebox and Jackpots” where I take bits for you to request a game to be played on stream, and challenge someone ( it could be the same person or different) to play and win 20-60% of the Jukebox revenue.

To keep it legal in ohio. Jukebox raffle bids are for picking games and determining pot size, then a second independent drawing based on chat and time watched currency (One good comment plus 5 minutes equal 1 raffle ticket.) detetmines who plsys. So the only thing you can “buy” is choice of game. You only earn contestant raffle tickets by chatting and watching. Dominate me and win 60% of the jackpot. win a closer one, you get 40%. I win but you’re good enough to not be dominated, you get 20%, and i dominate you, try harder next tinme. The dominarion margin is determined by jukebox votes, as are any rules we disagree with.

What would be more convincing that I’m not cheating, analog wires and no non-standard chips/programs, or the computerized solutions?

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I doubt anything with a raspberry pi in it would be tournament legal, it would be too hard to prove there are no shennanigans.

It’s hard to picture your second scenario as I’m imagining a mass of loose wires sticking out of your case. If it looks complicated then I suspect most judges would err on the side of caution rather than dissect your stick to determine its legality.

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  1. Never judge a book by its cover: a few years ago, fellow member Phreakazoid, as a proof of concept, added a custom hidden PCB to a stock Mad Catz TE that could turn on/off automatic plinking for SF4. Other than actually tearing apart and disassembling the entire stick, there’d be no way for anyone to tell even if you opened it up and looked inside.

  2. No TO or ref will take the time to examine each stick being used (custom or otherwise); so either there’s an honor system where they have to trust that people aren’t cheating, or the tournament provides the equipment. As per my example above, even participant-owned stock-looking sticks can hold surprises.

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I guess the best proof is to film you hands and sync the pkayback eith your hands.

The giveaway in the cheat I know is if dragon punches sre thrown with a tap of the stick left or right.

I guess Twitch and Mixer act as TO/Ref aids. Don’t most live twitch tournaments have 4 cameras that are always running, plsyet face cam, hand cam, game footage, snd presrnter cam mainly because these are the 4 most common shots, and usually best to shoe both the action, the emotion and skill of the stick wotk, so presenters can spot failed specials, etc.

And they only check if someone complains and the accused cashes in.

But I plan to promise bits for beating me. So would opening the stick. Snd showing the only computer brain other than a known fight pcb is a good sign.

Besides i want to show of my ambi wiring any way. In its niche wa, it’s ingenoious. Why would i have shame?

I’d even film it in a 3d camera so there are no forced perspective illusion hiding tricks when showing wiring.

The main reasin I’m concerned is my friend that was beat by multiple people with my right stick But the same stick when left stick only showed slight improvement over padbeith 1 more experienced person. In SF2.x speciald are both more powerful and harder ti ecectute than antthing newer. I can nail soecials near 100% right stick, but lefty was mostly misfire. Until i tried s sf4 pro stick on sf4, siul thriws wrre easier as a lefty. But ulis it the stickz or leniency factor in newer games.?..

i use the same physical stick, so it will be answered when i left stick SF2NC for Gensis eventually.

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I agree, it’s easier to prove that a bunch of wires and other analog electronics, with the only thing resembling a computer brain would be a PCB, either a Cthulhu for systems from SNES to Gamecube, I heard there might be some hidden features I heard rumors about on certain PS2-> other system adapters, so I should get a Brook Universal USB for newer systems, A Genesis PCB disassembled, and ( just in case) a 3D Zero Adapter for using an SNES pad on a 3DO. Assuming everything is Capcom Fighter related, the only IRREPLACEABLE question mark is the PS2-> Wii Classic adapter. I assume, if necessary, to make sure there’s no PCB reprogramming, They check the programming of a Paradise Cthulhu and a Brook Universal USB PCB against a standard, and see if the code matches bit for bit.

By the way, can any of these PS2 -> Xbox 360, Xbox One, and Wii Classic devices, one PS3-> Switch USB adapter, and one Raphnet GameCube to N64 adapter (in case there’s MK Trilogy or KI Gold) have their capability to use rapid fire, pre programmed sequences. All except the Wii classic and the N64 have pre approved solutions in the Brook Universal USB. So if any of those have cheats, wait until the Brook beofore playing those games,

Are there a list of Acceptable PS2->Wii Classic hookup ( for Wii or Wii U or NES Mini or SNES Mini) adapters? Any list of acceptable conectors for N64 Fighters (is Raphnet GC-> N64 OK) and is a Paradise Cthulhu in SNES mode and a 3D Zero OK?

Final thinking about pad hacks and beyond the fighting game., I’ll literally play anything I have, hence the name “Jukebox and Jackpots,”

The Genesis 6 button, Genesis 3 button for Ms Pac Man, and Atari Jaguar. If there is nothing resembling a computer brain involved in the pad hack added or appearing to be tampered, easy pass? And the NES is covered with the Paradise Cthulhu.

Easy non-fighting consoles

I know there are no fight games on Colecovision, but it’s not just fight games, so Is an Edladdin Coleco discrete PCB considered competition legal and “cheat free”? And either an Edladdin Seagull Gen->7800 adapter ( assuing Gneesiss checks out) or discrete input 7800 PCB?

Mster system and Astrocade and basic Atari Joystick (and maybe Atari Booster Grip joystick, depending if I i know it’s a straight wire or not, which uses digitzal actuation of minimum paddle and maximum paddle for each of 2 extra buttons.) are direct wires. No PCB involved no cheat.

The 2 toughest ones are Intelivision and 5200

Intelivision requires standard logic chips from Mouser.com to correctly do something when N/S + W/E are actuated simultaneously, to make sure secondary diagonals are not read as tertiaries, 16-way) and also use pin swap adapters to use Flashback controllers on a INTV 1 mainly to make adding an external joystick easier.

The 5200 is a beautiful mess. First it’s natively analog with a non-centering stick. Good for some games, bad for others.

2 solutions are needed. Both involve a Bohoki PC controller adapter. Just Plug in a 15 pin PC airplane stick (people might not see the “L” in “flight”) and a 5200 controller for the keypad including start, reset and pause buttons and plug in. This is for a self-centering analog stick.

There also a digital stick solution. Use the same Bohoki adapter and pad hack and NES-style digtial 15 pin PC control pad. It contains an analog to digitial 9 way stick converting circuit (the ninth way is neutral, which on A->D adapters have to be actively wired)

Finaly the fact that the default Atari stick has a circular restrictor, which means the maximum the radius (assuming center=0) x^2 + Y^2 has to be less than 1 (arbitrary number of radius units).

However a Competition Pro is a fight stick which uses x= -1, 0, or +1, and y=-1, 0, or 1 and the hacked PC controller might act similarly. Bt ther diagonals and maximum x or -x and maximum y or -y. Which means the radius is 1.41 times the circtular restrictor.

This has 2 effects.

Some games give you a diagonal speed boost that’s impossible with a stock controller if it’s an analog game. So that might be considered cheating. But you only go three speeds, maximum cardinal, maximum diagonal, and stop, even it it’s legal it might hurt you.

Other games are programmed like digital 4 way games, like Qix, Popeye, and Mountain King. Here’s an equation to turn any circular radius analog into a digtial 4-way. if X=> =-80, then by defintion ,Y<=+/-60 is automatic and doesn’tt need explicit code. and, the same equation except with swapping X and Y. This means the cardinals will only activate if it’s perpendicularly close to center. If you try to split the difference, and do a decent diagonal, the signal is read as a null signal because a direction must be 80+ to actuate, and it guarantees the other axis is intended to be centered. Both X and Y cannot be both +/- 80 or more.

However I know te Competiition Pro has a rectangular restrictors both physically and electronically, so X and Y CAN be both actuated. This was an era where you just can’t throw ROM space into something to patch something ,saving some bits per line increases your space elsewhere. With a line like “If X>+/-80”, you don’t have to add “AND Y<=60”, because the only controller in existence has a restrictor enforced diagonal lockout by physics, so it’s a code saver. The Competition Pro throws that out the window. And maybe, depending on the digitization circuit of the digital PC pad, so would a PC Digital Pad have that problem.

The easiest cure is having a 4/8 way switchable digital stick.

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What “analog” electronics do you keep referring to?

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Wires routing electricity to various points. I’m using the term to mean non computational electric equipment. In other words no circuit boards.

But yes, a Pi raises more questions than it answers. AtariAge is more about the computer science of old games.

But they do have a high score leaderboard for old systems. But is there a rulebook? I don’t know what it says about non-stock controllers.

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The main 2 legal princibles of most legal fight controls are
A) 1 physical button or stick direction equals one virtual button or stick direction in real time ( no rapid fire, no macros)
B) The Hitbox rule: no N+S, and no W+E ganes where it’s not intended. (a non fighter like Track N Field is okay to have W and E independent, hence the 2600 Track N Field controller also works for Space Invaders)

Someone is arguing about a weird pad holding trick thatt allows W+E or N+S. I don’t know if all updatable SF games virtually enforce the hitbox rule now. PS3/360/Wii to now.