Essentially ending the motion for these two specials in Up-Back~P or K to cancel the unthrowable portion of the pre-jump animation into the special move. Think of it kinda like CvS2 Roll-Canceling.
I assumed about 4 frames since, if I remember correctly, that’s about how long it takes a character to actually be in the air once jump has been pressed.
PJFC Ex Karakusa/Ex Oroshi has been talked about several times before the game fully released. Then when people started getting their copies early and everyone was complaining that people would mash either jab or throw to beat all their Karakusa attempts I brought it up again in the General Discussion thread. Sephiroth73003 said he tested and it worked here: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=225956&p=8757428&viewfull=1#post8757428
I’ve been mixing up PJFC Ex Oroshi and normal throws on opponent’s wake-up occasionally and have had their attempts to tech miss and get hit by the Oroshi, so I’m assuming it’s legit.
I was trying to do the PJFC karakusa, but I was still getting it thrown. I think I was just doing it wrong. Videos of this stuff would be great, if any of you video making guys can make it happen.
Yes. But that assumes perfect one frame timing. One frame late and you are actually in the air and can no longer cancel it.
Unless of course the throw invincibility of the pre-jump frames carry over into the first few frames of the special move if you do the special early. But if it did that it would really, really surprise me.
Does this only work against wake ups? I can’t seem to get U1 or c.HP to link to this. It works if I super cancel the oroshi, but otherwise it doesn’t work.
Just to check, meaty is where you time a move to hit at the latest possible point so you gain maximum frame advantage, yes? And it works because the opponents hitbox only becomes active halfway through the move.
Why hasn’t the classic f.LK reset been mentioned ? You can do the reset mid screen as well thanks to FADCs. Sadly I don’t have any recording equipment, otherwise, I’d supply a visual aid.
Karakusa xx s.HP xx EX Hayate xx (if mid screen FADC toward) xx f.LK xx dash:
This is where the gimmicks start. Depending on when you dash you can choose which side you will be on.
When done in the corner, if you dash immediately after the f.LK you’ll stay on the same side. If you delay your dash a bit, you’ll end up on the opposite side.
When done mid screen, you can either opt to dash or not dash at all after the f.LK. Because of how fast EX Hayate knocks back + the fast, long FADC, the game camera has to play catch up and more or less makes it hard for your opponent to see their character being reset. Gimmicks, hooray.
As for what to do after the reset, that’s up to you.
The Focus Level 2(guarded) > Dash > LK Karakusa as far as testing it on Ryu, works. Only reversal that he can do is a shoryuken. This seriously helps her offense.
As I can see right now Makoto’s gameplay revolves aroung meaty setups.
I use LP myself. Back in 3S, I would use HP since its a guarantee hit but I can’t seem to want to risk it in this version. If its a step too late, you are going to eat it or at best it gets blocked. It getting blocked is the same as your LP hitting them out of range then doing whatever to reset yourself. Of course that’s just me. Its not like she can continue attacking like in 3S, she must be played differently and I think that is 1 way to do it.
Just did a record really quick. The first frames are kinda messed up because I recorded VBR (won’t do that mistake again, since my muxer doesn’t seem to like VBR videos) but you can still see the concept.
Ok so the whole post hayate options. When he says any invincible attack will win against makoto, does he mean after a hayate that HITS? or blocked? Also, to what degree can she get punished after a blocked hayate?
It could just be my execution, but it seems that the f.LK reset cross under is character specific in the corner - I can’t get to the other side on average hitbox characters like Ryu, but I can do it on larger guys like Hakan and Honda. Midscreen with an FADC works on everyone I’ve tried so far though.
Am I just messing it up and need to get the dash out faster?
On the subject of character-specific, you can do “…” EX Hayate --> FADC --> light Fukiage on big characters. For some reason, the Tsurugi won’t connect though, even when it’s obviously touching.
Also, you can do Karakusa --> st.MP --> st.MP --> Kara Hayate Cancel for a possible regrab and when they get conditioned to jump away you can punish with HP Kara Hayate. If they start doing reversals, just block…
To stay on the same side you have to dash right after the f.lk hits. To appear on the other side you have to delay the dash a bit. The key to getting behind is delaying the dash a tad. So basically, get the dash out a little slower.
More food for thought though:
Meaty s.MP on wake up gives you three options.
Overhead (EX Oroshi)
Low (c.HP)
Karakusa
If the meaty s.MP hits then the overhead and/or low option will combo. If it’s blocked then the opponent has to guess high or low, both which lead to another un-techable knockdown for a rinse repeat cycle in some cases. Of course, the overhead option is the “safest” you’re going to get in the case that your mix-up does get blocked.
How do we know if the MP is Meaty during wake-up? I mean with Oroshi there’s the reference that after a c.HP you dash then immediately MP Oroshi. How about MP?
Timing meaty MP is just about watching the character rising. For me, you want to hit MP pretty much as soon as they are standing straight up. You can tell when you hit it meaty correctly, because they never hit their neutral stance.
? You can do the reset mid screen as well thanks to FADCs. Sadly I don’t have any recording equipment, otherwise, I’d supply a visual aid.