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Fightpads can be good. Players using pads have done well in recent competition.

Lol this guy…Lol at Sunday night when i asked you to use someone other than Ken and you switched to Zanghief…

You mean when you tried using Honda against my Gief, proceeded to lose to my Gief, and then asked me if I was one of the “makers” of HDR? Oh yeah, and then you said I was cheap again because Gief was the best character in the game… LOL. Then you tried using Blanka again against my Gief and finally won one game then quit. GGs.

For those that don’t know, Zangief is pretty much considered the worst character in the game. That being said, being able to win with a character that pretty much only controls, at most, a crouching roundhouse’s worth of space around him when most characters control much more space speaks volumes to one’s skill.

That fact also speaks to how well Sirlin balanced this game…even with the changes that some of us would’ve liked to have seen. :slight_smile: Even with Zangief having very few winning matchups, he’s still solid. I love “educating” people with him when I can. :slight_smile:

Quoted for truth.

Well, you won’t believe it but GGs to Mtaylo. I think he’s a changed man… No ragequitting, no hate mailing, and he was actually being down to earth… Good stuff.

Let the transformation begin!

Zangief is not the worst character, he has great priority on that sweep and his SPD range is crazy. Worst character is definitely Cammy, followed by maybe Fei-Long, 'Gief, Blanka, and so forth. But there’s no way he’s the absolute worst.

Uhhh… Zangief doesn’t seem so bad when you’re playing Snake Eyes and he SPD’s you from what feels like a half screen away… its just soooo damn perfect… when people like that play Zangief he doesn’t seem so low tier anymore lol. GGs to Snake Eyes by the way…

My personal belief with Zangief is that even a lot of his on paper “losing matches” are actually what I’d term very unstable matches. What top players call his 4-6 kind of matchups feel like they are that to me, yet at the same time, it tends to be if you make one mistake against Gief, he can turn a losing round into a win very quickly. Let’s say he has high “swingability” factor in many of his matches. I’m not expressing this very well, but I’m sure you’ll get what I mean. This is absolutely compounded by any amount of rollback or lag. Sure it’s bad for a Gief walking into fireballs he can’t see in laggy conditions, but if he can get lucky once and the opponent doesn’t see one Gief jump in in time due to a bit of lag, he might just be able to win the round. This IMO makes him a rather excellent online character.

Note - I’m no Gief expert at all, but I do feel like I have played against a lot of good Giefs on HDR.

I think it’s Cammy as well. However, depending on the match-up chart you look at, both Cammy and 'gief can be tournament viable thanks to their favorable match ups against acknowledged top characters like Boxer, 'sim, and Ryu.

Besides a couple of particularly bad match-ups, at the top level of competition, it tends to be a story of players, and not characters.

I see it this way. Cammy beats: T-Hawk, Zangief, Blanka, and Fei-Long. I think she pulls even with Dhalsim, loses slightly to Sagat, and gets owned by the rest of the cast. Her spin knuckle is completely useless in advanced play, and the spacing on her drill is a bit too strict to be able to win consistently. If we’re playing Theory Fighter, some of her matchups can literally seem like 9-1. Ironically she’s quite good in SSIV and yet too complex for me to use :frowning:

Well, even in looking at Haru Teyjo being the number one ranked XBox Live player and maining Zangief, I think it’s pretty clear that characters that have viable mind game options can certainly steal games that they may not usually be able to. That’s why I’ve always said that mind games are the final frontier of skill. If you can yomi people into unconsciousness, you can go much further than the character’s “toolbox” would suggest. Given how much damage Zangief can do with a correct guess, whether it’s a throw or a combo into a sweep or Banishing Flat, he can certainly get a few more games off of people when he’s allowed into his effective range.

Now with Cammy, on the other hand, I can see where you all would say that, especially given her weakness against turtles (give her a Hooligan Combo Dive Kick with 8 frame startup that hits as an overhead and only becomes available after the peak of the move and that problem partly goes away, IMHO), but the safe :lk: Cannon Drill in combination with the Hooligan Combo (15 years on internet forums and those puns just keep right on coming) give her options. Personally, I think while Cammy is better than Zangief by a slight margin, her reward for playing successful mind games is lower than Zangief’s…hence she has a harder time stealing matches. I think that might be what the Cammy mains are experiencing.

Still…I look back to all of those phenomenal wins (tournament finals wins, too) that Syxx573 was getting with his Cammy and I agree with my boy James Chen when he says that the Hooligan Combo is a really really good move. Make them think you’re going to Cannon Drill, whether it’s in a combo or not, and then take 'em for a ride! Didn’t a Cammy player just take her to the top 4 in a recent tournament? Again…this game has been balanced well…but I do think Cammy has a slight edge over Zangief in the bottom tier.

Agreed, OJ. The other thing to consider is the power Zangief has. He can put you away very quickly whereas Cammy needs to extend the mind-games for a longer period of time. And the Hooligan is definitely a great move, yes, but the difficulty is in getting within that range (this is where she sucks).

Yeah, Mongolorobokop played Cammy at Devastation 2010 until Winners Finals where he switched to Chun after two matches against DGV (which is understandable since Ryu owns Cammy and DGV’s Ryu owns pretty much everybody…)

Hooligan is a great move, but its great when you’ve set it up… putting it out their randomly is a good way to get destroyed…

True story: I’ve been beaten several times by Irvine Deveroux’s (sp?) Cammy. All he pretty much did was walk up cr. :lk:. It stuffs all FB attempts and even attempting a psychic DP against him is a bad idea. Played like that, I imagine Cammy can be pretty nasty against shotos.

^^Yep, my Ken and Ryu have also been beaten by Irvine as well as another good Cammy player (Antagonistic?). Most of the time it’s pretty even, but if I’m not on my best zoning game, I lose for sure. They actually use cr Forward not cr Short to beat FB startups and it whiffs vs Shoryukens so Cammy can punish with st Fierce or st Forward or walk up throw. What I really hate though, and one of them does it all the time, is neutral empty jump from outside sweep range into Super. IDK why I fall for it, but I’m getting wiser to it (slowly anyway). = J

Are you sure it wasn’t me who empty jumped into super? I’ll do that sometimes… and yes, Cr. MK is Cammy’s best normal followed closely by J. MP… All Cammy’s should abuse CR. MK whenever possible. Irvine, Antagonist and I all use it religiously

I concur. I played this mtaylo24 guy yesterday and he not only rage quit but had the familiar rationale of most scrubs: "I quit because of how you play…plus, if you are good at Street Fighter [and beat me], you are a virgin."
I suppose that line of thought makes poor players feel great about themselves. Ha!
Mtaylo24, don’t play fighting games if you can’t stand to lose–that’s kinda sorta a part of the game. Good luck, pal. You’ll need it with your losing attitude.

No I’m pretty sure it was Irvine since I play his Cammy the most. I’ve only played you and Noriega’s Cammy about a handful of times, but I’ve played those other 2 dudes quite a lot. I seem to run into Irvine almost every time I play, and Antagonist seems to show up every time I jump on ranked. But GGs for all the matches we’ve played Silver, same to Noriega. It would be nice to play you guys on a regular basis.