Help with Shotos

ok i normally don’t have that much trouble with shotos when i can get in i can punish alot of crap with my jab string etc but what do you do with shotos(mainly ken and ryu akuma isn’t that bad) who like show 0 interest in actually fighting you they spend the entire fight jumping back and fireballing and if they hit a corner the tatsu out like if i have ultra i auto correct ultra punish usually but otherwise it can be frustrating dealing with people who do that and i can’t dash punch too much cuz they nj fierce punish it: /

slow move/block/patient attack. they can’t dodge you like sim can, so approach the match the same if they are running away.

when i face run away kens and ryus i just build a free ultra, then once i have my ultra and pretty much 100% health, i go in for the kill and land an ultra, then i hang back and make them come to me since i have a giant life lead.

this always throws them off because they have absolutely no clue wtf to do in this situation.

but run away kens/ryus are a dime a dozen and can be at best an actual bad/mediocore player.

you can give up … shotos are the most broken bullshit in online sf4. free lp srk mashing with bullshit priority … free jumpins … and so on…

… and get lp srked

exactly … and they are free to do what they want - because capcom is unable to balance their game.

yeah the lp shoryu is pretty op but as far as balanced goes SF4 is one of the most balanced fighters ive played its fun and all but go play blazblue for a lil thats a broken game.
its really frustrating because i can’t build much ex meter at the right range i can punish jump back with an ex upper or jump ins with an ex str8t or upper, but when i start doing that it usually just makes them turtle even harder and i hate the ones that fireball and u can see them mashing shoryu input to shoryu u if u TAP through it i try to play patient eventually i just don’t feel like i can really manage control unless i get a life lead then they come in and i can fight them but while they are ahead its hard to reverse it for me

dexa stop trolling.

another thing i wanna know is how do you deal with ryus that low forward alot whats the best way to punish that

have you played online lately? i guess not - or do you have a magically balanced version?

Things I keep in mind versus Jump-Back heroes.

Throw out less random/midscreen nonsense. No unnessecary straights, no big pokes (SRH/SFP) and keep patient. I find the most frustrating thing with jump-back heroes is they love to just run away and peg you with projectiles all day and will eventually/randomly jump forward into something completely random that will more often than not punish you for trying to react rationally.

Get them to the corner (Neutral Jump/Forward Jump/Block/Focus Fireballs until then) and if you notice the Shoto does like to jump-Tatsu away when they feel cornered you can often catch them with a backdash/sweep, TAP or even an auto-corrected Ultra if you know how, all range dependant bar the Ultra. Otherwise pin them there and stay cool - If they throw punishable garbage, punish it but go easy with what you use because one mashed out SRK and they’re away again.

If you get a lifelead then play their own game and just bugger off fullscreen and have fun playing “Dodge the Blueberry” by jumping over whatever they throw. Had this with an Akuma yesterday, bloke did literally nothing but jump-airfireballs so I focussed on just avoiding them, predicting the flowchart jumps and AA’ing with timed EX Uppers or TAP and otherwise just stood fullscreen and had fun waiting to see if they’d actually bother to attack when time was running out - The poor guy was so oblivious he carried on until 2 seconds were left, easy win for me.

I found when I got reckless I’d eat a random cocktail containing Tatsu, mashed SRKs, unpredictable sweeps or that double fierce kick of his, all randomly. Eventually I gave up and just resorted to what he was doing, did enough comfortable damage to then back off and let them do some chasing for a change and this allowed me to keep cool because otherwise I was getting absolutely enraged at how sad they were playing.

Applies to all Shoto’s really. If all they do is jump-back then all it can take is one solid planned punish then you can fuck off and wait for the win. It sucks but you really can’t predict anything a random masher will do so trying to approach them with tact very rarely works.

The key is just to be patient. If you lose patience and play recklessly, you will more than likely lose to this garbage.

if the low forward is at max range and they throw a fireball you can headbutt ultra super or ex dash right thru it. but once someone with half a brain sees you doing this theyll stop throwing fireballs after the low forward to bait the headbutt or ultra or super and punish you for free. you can do the ex kara cancel because if a fireball comes out you absorb it and get a lil meter then ultra comes out. if no fireball is thrown an ex dash punch comes out. if the kara cancel is too much just ex dash punch right thru it. and cr strong AFAIK can snuff cr forward. im not near my xbox to check it but it should beat it

Balrog has pretty good tools to deal with shotos. Patience is definitely the key. Here’s some tips you might find helpful:

  1. Learn to time TAP so you go through a fireball. Once you get through one, even if TAP doesn’t hit, it gives you the opportunity to do a dash punch or headbutt them. Main thing is, you’ll get in much faster this way and puts pressure on them as well. Plus sometimes jumping over fireballs can get you punished on the landing.

  2. Ultra! People who jump back and fireball so much that they expect to win a match like that will generally fall into some sort of predictable pattern or timing. It’s actually really easy to make a good read with the Ultra and go through a fireball and punish them hard. Patience is the key since you’ll mostly only get one shot at this.

  3. Don’t fall for corner escapes. When they hit a wall, don’t rush in because that’ll be perfect opportunity for them to escape. Instead just wait mid screen. If they jump tatsu out, you can throw them back in or at least sweep them. Also I like to do a lot of jumping HP to stop their jumpouts. You can do solid damage and it gets them on tilt when they can’t get out and do stupid crap like a random ultra or DP for you to punish.

I think the real problems are shotos who use well timed focuses. They can’t hurt you real bad if you’re not careful. Also my cousin does this nasty trick where he baits my dash punch with a blocked sweep, then mashes out a DP or Ultra as I’m trying to punish. Makes it hard to do much until I have Super/ultra.

rog Sweep beats shotos low strong and low forward.
also standing rh

dude this is a very easy process 2 dealing with these guys…there stradgey isnt full proff or they would b tha best…so they r very beatable my solution is merely out thinking them…they r not very smart players 2 begin with running away with a ryu or ken tha whole match is not top level play its just online scrubyness…(4 tha most part) so while this asshole is jumping back focus a few of them of course and make a slow approach but watch 4 jumpins if u jump over a fireball and he jumps n after u cr.hp his ass all day if he keeps jumping back b patient and follow if u got ex time a ex upper through a fireball and start a combo…dont try punchin through a fireball full screen or u should b dp’d…slowly this asshole ends up n a corner and this is where u beat him stand just outta range 4 your sweep this way if he jumps over with a hurricane kick u can get 2 him n time 2 punish and if he throws any fireballs hb all day if he jumpsin cr.hp all day…once u knock him down time a jumpin rite if he blocks stop your block string early kinda like u r droping a combo most of these dumbasses mash out dps at this time and dont cancel tha missed ones im sure u know what 2 do at that point…if they r not tha type 2 do that overhead smash is a great newb destroying tool

[quote=“Dexa, post:4, topic:109065”]

you can give up … shotos are the most broken bullshit in online sf4. free lp srk mashing with bullshit priority … free jumpins … and so on…

dude its not hard…shotos r far from broken i will say ryu is really good though…there is not a free lr srk either u gotta have timing just sweep tha asshole or jab into a combo just time it rite or thats your ass

If a runaway shoto isn’t throwing fireballs, you should already be kicking his ass.

If he is, dash ultra. Can’t srk that shit.

Dash Ultra 1 through fireball is possible from full screen yes? idk bout shoto’s but i did that to a sim this weekend at a tournament. =o

from full screen it isn’t they recover too quick you can do it from a lil over half but not full screen otherwise they can block or worse shoryuken u out of ultra(had this happen to me before)

Wow, I’m gonna chime in because I main Zangief and I deal with this shit all the time (ALL THE TIME). lol

Be patient, if you’re facing a shoto, there are two things that definitely WILL happen: lp DP/Waves of Hadoukens

Against Guile, I like to bulldog and focus booms, this method can be applied to shoto’s as well because a blocked hadouken isn’t going to do anything worthwhile. Bulldog your way up and get in their face, then back off a little bit. Eventually they’ll throw out a DP, simply punish and repeat. Another tactic shotos use is jump-ins and tripping, then jumping back. Let them come to you, block the trip low, and punish their ass.

You just need to read their tactics, especially the DP mashing. Learn to back dash to avoid the DP, because it will save your ass so many times, or jump back.

I remember fighting this scrubby Ken online. Guy tried to fierce DP me, I jumped back and right as we landed I ended the match. Simply get in their mind and think how a scrub thinks. Doesn’t mean you have to play like one, but this will allow you to mind fuck them with your Sharingan and rape their tactics.

The main thing they want to do is this: Mash DP through strings, jump-in and trip, and fireball like crazy.

DP = bait/block/back dash and punish
Jump-in Trip tactic = block low/back dash and punish
Fireball = bulldog your way through, TAP/Ultra/Focus/Block

Of course Balrog is completely different from my main, but I feel these tips can still be applied.

In my case, I’d rely on Hand/EX Hand/Lariat/Focus/Bulldogging my way through. As stated, when a shoto runs into the corner, don’t follow them. Stay at mid screen and punish them when they fly into the air. They will use the air tatsu as a means of escape, believe me.

This will allow you to corner them and keep them in proper range.

Yes you can. You can also sweep through Balrog’s whiffed ultra. This is assuming U1’s first hit hasn’t connected.

The only problem is the shoto scrubs that have learned they can throw WITH random mash dp’s. Those are the one that irk the hell outta me. For that I really just use a “spacing” game. Not too close, not too far.